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Hi guys, so basically i used to play 40k and decided to get back into it recently. I figured I would play Space marines, my previous army was tau, but I sold it :,(
I really like the Imperial Fists so i thought i would go with them.
My army idea is for 1000 points and is based around Drop podding lots of guns. (I really like drop pods, and bolters with bolter drill).
It's probably a naff idea but i wanted to know what the guys on Dakka thought!

So here it is:

Command Squad (230pts)
4x Plasma Gun, 2x Storm Shield
Apothecary
Drop Pod, Storm bolter

Captain (180pts)
Artificer Armor, Auspex, Combi-Melta, Digital Weapons, Melta Bombs, Relic Blade, Storm Shield

2 X Tactical Squad (185pts each)

Heavy Bolter, 9x Space Marine
Drop Pod, Storm bolter
Space Marine Sergeant, Bolt pistol, Bolter

Tactical Squad (220pts)

Meltagun, Multi-Melta, 9x Space Marine
Rhino, Hunter-Killer Missile
Space Marine Sergeant , Bolt pistol, Combi-Melta, Melta Bombs

And that's my 1000 points so any advice or changes you guys can give me would be great!
I't is mainly to play friendly games with mates or people at clubs but hopefully it can be tailored to be slightly competitive as well.

That lone rhino is going to be shot up really badly. Change it out to a drop pod, or face the prospect of being tabled turn 1.

Also, why heavy bolters on the tactical squads? I get the fluff, but practically its a waste. You'll only be able to snap shoot when you land. Melta is more practical for taking out tanks close range.

If you drop the auspex, digital weapons, melta bombs and combi-melta on your captain, you can upgrade him to a chapter master. Which would give you more wounds, better stats and an orbital bombardment. Actually you may be able to keep one of those upgrades, but still, you get the idea.

Ok thanks for the advice with the rhino Zambro
And i guess i just put the HB in to go with bloter drill but meltas are the same price so no problem switching that up.

Icculus if i have the chapter master i get a tougher HQ right? but can i keep my command squad?

Cheers guys

First, Welcome to Dakka, back to 40k, and Codex: Marines.

The first rule of drop pod lists is to land HARD. You are putting a small portion of your army into the killbox, so need to make sure you ruin the day of everyone near your LZ with the first round of fire you get. You command squad got the memo; They are going to step out of the pod and erase some poor infantry unit. Tactical squads don’t work as well here. They are good for followup pods, but not really the first wave. Your Melta tac squad would work better here. You are going to put two normal and one snapshoted melta blasts into some vehicle. While not a guaranteed kill, you have high odds of reducing something to scrap.

Zambro is right about the rhino. On the first turn it’s going to be sitting alone on the table and be the target for all 1,000 points of your opponent’s army. It is not going to enjoy the experience. You won’t loose due to being tabled (that’s the end of the game turn, so you get 2 pods down first) but you ground forces are going to be dead. Might as well go full drop, null deployment. As points go you you can move to a hybrid list, with 3 pods dropping to support a gunline. But at low points, you are just offering up part of you list to the meat-grinder by splitting up.

One of the perks of a drop list is the ability to put the right unit right where it needs to be. So have a diverse array of specialized units.

Plasma Command squad: Kills TEQ, MCs, and hunts warloards
MM/M, c-melta tac squad: Guns for tanks, bolters troops as needed
HB/F, c-flamer tac squad: Kills troops and soft backfield units

You pick and choose who needs to come down first wave. Sternguard and Ironclad dreds make for good cargo in drop pods. 5 man duel flamer assault squads are a cheep way to boost you pod count. In an ideal world keep to odd numbers to maximize first turn impact.

I like heavy bolters, but not so much for first turn drops. They lack the burst impact needed for the job. As a fist player, you might want to consider running them in a dev squad. Park them behind an ADL or ruins and just poor fire into things. While there might be better specialized tools for a lot of jobs, massed sustained heavy bolter fire can solve a lot of life’s problems.

Overall you list is workable. I think you bought to many toys for your captain, and would definitely swap the melta squad into a pod at the minimum. Frankly, at 1k I run a full tac and half scout sniper squad for most lists. You could afford to swap one tac squad for something with a little more teeth. What depends a lot on personal preference and where you want to go with the army.

Ok so drop the rhino put the melta squad in a pod.
Lose some additions to my captain can do.
I did think about having everything in pods but don't i need to start with units on the board?
ADL would be nice with the dev squad but if i'm making a dev squad shouldn't i focus on heavier tank killing weapons to maximise the chapter tactics?
And i'm realising that i need to specialise squads for the drop podding so is the imperial fists chapter tactics any good really?

Thanks Nevelon

 Beeso_Jack wrote:
Ok so drop the rhino put the melta squad in a pod.
Lose some additions to my captain can do.
I did think about having everything in pods but don't i need to start with units on the board?
ADL would be nice with the dev squad but if i'm making a dev squad shouldn't i focus on heavier tank killing weapons to maximise the chapter tactics?
And i'm realising that i need to specialise squads for the drop podding so is the imperial fists chapter tactics any good really?

Thanks Nevelon

If you are going to run reserve heavy lists (aka drop pods) you should read the rules yourself. But in a nutshell you take all you units, put them in transports, etc, and then set aside the ones that need to start in reserves (pods, flyers, etc.) Count the number of units that remain, and reserve up to half of them if you want. What remains needs to be set up. If everything is in a pod, you need to start half of nothing on the table, so 0 units. The no units on the table=loose rule checks at the end of the game turn, not player turn, so you will be fine going second. You should be dropping over half your army, and the best half at that, so the odds of every unit and pod getting blown off the table in one round are low.

I love heavy bolters, you seemed to want to use them, and dev squads are not a bad place for them. I like Devs for anti infantry roles, and HBs do that. The tank hunter is kinda wasted here, but would help if you are gunning for light vehicles. You could toss something else in here or mix things up. 2xHB, 2xPC will put the hurt on infantry and threaten light tanks. Lots of different ways to go.

The Imp fists CT is solid. It’s not flashy, but it helps the backbone of your army get the job done. Most things that walk on two feet can be brought down just by making them roll their armor saves and waiting for the ones to show up. A good bolter drill and get those wounds on infantry. Ultramarine’s CT gives you nice one turn bursts, which work well for drop pods. But IFs have a nice CT that will stay with you the whole game. If you want to go with the Imperial Fists, do it. While other chapters might have edges in some cases, what you have works, and works well. We can theory craft about the pros and cons of each, and there are a lot; but at the end of the day play the army you love and pray to the dice gods. that’s going to be more important then were you sent those last 5 points.

I have been looking at the rule book and it basically says that drop pods don't count so they are all off the table, and it doesn't state that I have to start with units on the board anywhere I can find in the rule book.

I have decided to be a devout follower of the Imperial Fists so I think I will always use IF marines.

Thanks for all the help and advice
I will post my new army list up shortly so you guys can judge.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Right so here goes, a few changes, tell me what you think!

HQ

Captain (160pts)
Artificer Armor, Combi-plasma, Relic Blade, Storm Shield
With
Command Squad (245pts)
4x Plasma Gun,
2x Storm Shield,
Apothecary,
Drop Pod, Deathwind Missile Launcher


Troops

Tactical Squad (200pts)
Flamer, Heavy Bolter, 9x Space Marines,
Drop Pod, Storm Bolter
Space Marine Sergeant, Bolt pistol, Combi-flamer

Tactical Squad (205pts)
Meltagun, Multi-Melta, 9x Space Marines,
Drop Pod, Storm Bolter
Space Marine Sergeant, Bolt pistol, Combi-melta

Tactical Squad (190pts)
Meltagun, 9x Space Marines,
Drop Pod, Storm Bolter
Space Marine Sergeant, Melta Bombs

So that's it works as a nice drop pod army in my opinion.
Captain is with command squad so counts as crew of drop pod as do all the tacticals so they all start in reserve.
Have a strong tank hunt unit and a backup one as well as an anti infantry and the tough command squad.
Thoughts?

Dont use deathwind luancher on dpod, it has to snap fire on the turn it comes down, therefore rendering it useless on the turn it most matters. After that theyll just move outside the 12 inch range.

 ninjafiredragon wrote:
Dont use deathwind luancher on dpod, it has to snap fire on the turn it comes down, therefore rendering it useless on the turn it most matters. After that theyll just move outside the 12 inch range.

Cheers for that mate.

i will adjust it

Relic blade is horrible. Drop it, the deathwind and the stormshield and pick up Shield Eternal and a power weapon for your captain instead.

He'll be more durable and much more killy. Although you'll have to drop the combi-weapon as well (SE takes out one of your weapons, so you will end up with a close combat beast that'll tank for your command squad).

Rorschach9 wrote:
Relic blade is horrible. Drop it, the deathwind and the stormshield and pick up Shield Eternal and a power weapon for your captain instead.

He'll be more durable and much more killy. Although you'll have to drop the combi-weapon as well (SE takes out one of your weapons, so you will end up with a close combat beast that'll tank for your command squad).

Relic blades aren’t horrible. They are a jack-of-all-trades compromise weapon, so don’t excel at any one thing. But they also don’t break the bank on points. I think the relic/SS combo has a little more offense then a power weapon/SE combo, but is not as tough. Depends on what you are looking for.

As above, i believe shield eternal is better.
Also, i would go all melta in your pods instead of flamer in one squad.
A flamer and HB will not offer much your upgraded bolters can not do. You need more meltas in case you run into transport heavy opponents and with drop pods you may even get rear shots to nasty things that ruin a day (ahem wave serpents ahem )

 Nevelon wrote:

Rorschach9 wrote:
Relic blade is horrible. Drop it, the deathwind and the stormshield and pick up Shield Eternal and a power weapon for your captain instead.

He'll be more durable and much more killy. Although you'll have to drop the combi-weapon as well (SE takes out one of your weapons, so you will end up with a close combat beast that'll tank for your command squad).

Relic blades aren’t horrible. They are a jack-of-all-trades compromise weapon, so don’t excel at any one thing. But they also don’t break the bank on points. I think the relic/SS combo has a little more offense then a power weapon/SE combo, but is not as tough. Depends on what you are looking for.

25 points for a S+2 AP3 weapon that will never allow +1 attack for 2 CCW's sounds horrible to me. Of course, that's a matter of personal opinion, but one shared by most I do believe.

I actually prefer the Power weapon (axe or maul)/Storm Sheild/CCW (or bolt pistol) combo for the extra attack, 3++ and better offense for less points.

From what I could tell reading the codex is Imperial fists are a shooting based army. I would invest in centurions and devastators. The ability to give them tank hunter is very strong. Moreover, the command squad with plasma at 1000 points is not that strong, I would drop them you can bring a lot of fire power for what all those plasma and storm shields cost you! Also cheap and easy, the space marine flyer is strong. Also one idea I want to tinker with in land speeders with two heavy bolters, with bolter drill for only 60 points can put out a lot of str 5 shots for pretty cheap. I have not tried it, but at a 1000 points, for 180 points you can get 3 landspeeders, with 6 hb, that 18 str 5 shots, rerolling ones to hit, that will kill a lot of stuff.

Anyway good luck with your list, imperial fists are awesome!

IF you got any more questions just ask!

Welcome back to the hobby and well done for choosing imperial fists

if im running a drop pod list i always use dreads aswell as troops to cause max damage.

Heres a example of what i normaly take for 1k drop pod.

* Captain Artificer Armor Boltgun, Grav Pistol

* Dreadnought Multi-Melta Dreadnaught Power Fist Storm Bolter Drop Pod
* Dreadnought Multi-Melta Dreadnaught Power Fist Storm Bolter Drop Pod

* Tactical Squad Plasma Gun 7x Space Marine Space Marine Sergeant Drop Pod
* Tactical Squad Plasma Gun 7x Space Marine Space Marine Sergeant Drop Pod
* Tactical Squad Plasma Gun 7x Space Marine Space Marine Sergeant Drop Pod


* Vindicator

I drop the dreads next to targets like armour to remove asap and the troops to mop up and vinny to cause random mass confusion.

Awesome!!!
All these posts are giving me loads of ideas and helping a lot.
Thanks for everyone's replies!

Rorschach9 wrote:
Relic blade is horrible. Drop it, the deathwind and the stormshield and pick up Shield Eternal and a power weapon for your captain instead.

He'll be more durable and much more killy. Although you'll have to drop the combi-weapon as well (SE takes out one of your weapons, so you will end up with a close combat beast that'll tank for your command squad).

I wanted to make my command squad a heavy infanty/ light tank killer (the idea of drop and move so i can fire plasma rounds rapid fire) and my captain is involved i like the relic blade idea but maybe i should change but i dont want to boost the cost of my captain with SE. is this a silly opinion?

Also are grav guns good?

Cheers guys

Rorschach9 wrote:25 points for a S+2 AP3 weapon that will never allow +1 attack for 2 CCW's sounds horrible to me. Of course, that's a matter of personal opinion, but one shared by most I do believe.

I actually prefer the Power weapon (axe or maul)/Storm Sheild/CCW (or bolt pistol) combo for the extra attack, 3++ and better offense for less points.

I’m a firm believer in “Boys before Toys.” I’d rather have more boots on the ground then a few tricked out HQs. I recognize that this might not be the majority opinion. But if I find myself spending the same points in wargear as it would to put antoher tank on the table, I’ll go with the tank. For me, the relic blade fills the role of a TAC generalist weapon, which fits my playstyle. YMMV. Plus they can look cool. As an aside, if you like relic blades, and plan on going for mulching troops, think about upgrading to the Teeth of Terra. It’s a relic blade++.

Beeso_Jack wrote:Awesome!!!
All these posts are giving me loads of ideas and helping a lot.
Thanks for everyone's replies!

Also are grav guns good?

Cheers guys

They can be good. For them to really shine they need to either stand still, or have something that can fake it (relentless or S&P) This is why you see them on cents and bikes. For other uses, stick with plasma. If you are the kind of person who likes plasma pistols (which I find massively overpriced) grav pistols pair well with unwieldy weapons. due to their concussive rule. But I’m a miser with wargear, and think 15 points for a pistol you might get to shoot twice a game is a waste. Opinions, obviously, vary.

Just to let you know the best hq in the space marine codex is, in my opion the fully tricked out chaptermaster on a bike, with a 2 up save, the shield erternal, and a powerfist. Powerfist is alot better then a relic blade, its five points more, is str 8 compared to str 6 and is ap2. Even not on the bike the chapter master I describe above is a monster. He is next to un-killable, and will tank most of the damage for whatever squad he is with. So for example, you can drop the strom shields off your command squad. You can keep him as a captian if you like but for the 25 upgrading o a chaptermaster is very very good. Space marines in general tend to benefit from really strong expensive specialty characters, there codex is made that way so try to take as much advantage as your pricey hq's as you can, they, in a lot of ways, will win you the game.

The only justification I could make for the relic blade is as follows:

Low point game, no 3++, cheap-side HQ that is not a Librarian or MotF, who will be in a position to both assault and shoot and thus needs to be capable of both.

In my eyes, this would be a Captain with artificer armor, Relic blade, and the Primarch's Wrath or a combi-weapon. Possibly Meltabombs. Clocks in between 145 and 160 points, and drops in with a command squad pod. His loadout will let him beat through MEQ with superior WS and wounding on 2's or 3's, while ignoring armor. The shooting is enough to threaten the same.