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So in the past couple of tournaments I've been to in my area more then one person has run a normal Lord of Change as Kairos. To elaborate its a normal stock Lord of Change with one head, running around as Kairos Fateweaver. Is this something that is okay in the greater community of 40K, and more importantly at GTs?

"Proxies" and "counts as" are allowable based on your TOs rulings and in some cases, how your opponents feel. Generally, it is best to have these things checked with a TO before an event and if players are not ok with it they should bring it up to a TO.

Proxies are probably ok if everyone else is cool with it and its just one off event where you are trying things out. Counts as is probably ok if the TO "oks" the substitution but its probably best to have the original model available incase some player is not ok with the substitution.

 arinnoor wrote:
So in the past couple of tournaments I've been to in my area more then one person has run a normal Lord of Change as Kairos. To elaborate its a normal stock Lord of Change with one head, running around as Kairos Fateweaver.

In so. cal. you'd be fine, as both models are giant chickens.

Seriously.

And mortevie is right; call the TO. More often, it's the guy across the table as TOs are pretty busy with other items. I don't think I've *ever* had someone make a stink about a proxy, in 9 years of play and 4 or so of tourney attendance. Of course, no one, at a tourney, has asked for anything really off from the model it is proxying.

 arinnoor wrote:
Is this something that is okay in the greater community of 40K, and more importantly at GTs?

@ mortevie:
Had something else to do besides the LVO? It was a good gig, man. Convinced me to break out my Taudar and put away my silly muhreens.

I really wanted to go to the LVO but I had a moot court competition in SF to go to.

It was a blast and moot court experience is a definite plus for any prospective lawyer's resume but I hope to make next year's LVO unless it interferes with me taking the bar . On that note, my team didn't win overall but we beat university of SF law and Loyola law school when we went against them!

Glad you had a great time, my friends that went did as well.

Thank you both for answering, though neither what i expected to see. I do understand that different TOs do different things, but I would have thought the stance on proxying would be fairly consistent, especially on the GT level.

Virtually nothing is consistent between RTTs and GTs except for the fact that the game of 40k is being played.

This is because anyone running an RTT or GT can run it however they please and they are the ultimate authority in terms of everything for that event. This is why it is best to go directly to the guy who has ALL the power and say...so the answer to your question is only answerable on a case by case basis of which the respective TOs can answer. Others can only speculate.

RCC - Rule of Cool and Clarity

If someone has two Lords of Change and they look about the same and he tells you "the one with the white wings is Fatewevaer," that's neither cool nor clear.

If someone has one stock Lord of Change model painted stock standard and his list has only Fateweaver and he makes it very clear to you that the Lord of Change is Fateweaver, he might not be very cool but he's ultra clear.

If someone took a stock Lord of Change model and gave it a masterful paint job while converting it to have 12 heads and 7 fingers on its hands, and he tells you "hey my really sweet conversion is Fateweaver" and he has no other LOC type model in the army, well that might just be cool and clear.

Few tournaments worth their salt will be OK with the first example. Most tournaments will be kinda OK with the second example, especially in the era of GW price hikes and lack of care for supporting the tournament scene. Few tournaments will NOT be OK with the last example.

Long and short is you shouldn't expect your perfect hobby ideal to face you in every game at a random draw tournament not comprised entirely of friends operating within a preset social contract. So if someone plops down a stock LOC and his army list and clear pre-game commentary all make it very straightforward that the single LOC in his army is Fateweaver ... well, it's probably not all THAT bad to roll with it.

From a TO perspective, however, I would at least like to encourage people to not abuse what they can get away with ... this is a HOBBY involving both a competitive (it's not cooperative) game and an artistic experience. Even if you aren't going to get DQ'ed most places for the stock LOC you're "Counting as" Fatey at a tournament, you would be better off putting in more effort than that.

Hm, is it wrong to regardless of any perceived notion that checking with TOs about any model that is converted or non stock should be done?