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As the title suggests, I am new to Warmachine/Hordes. My gaming group are getting into it (well, one has been playing for a while) and I had some fairly basic questions. As a first note, we are fairly casual wargamers, so concerned with fun rather than optimising/tournament play.

I understand that Warmachine and Hordes are basically compatible, which is good for me, because my friends all like different Warmachine factions while I am more interested in Hordes models. Right now I have the Hordes and Minions rulebooks (Mark 2, which I understand is current). Based purely on the models I like on the PP website, I think I want to play Gatormen, and based on my limited understanding of how lists are built, the Blindwater Congregation theme looks best to me. The models I like best are these:

Warlocks
- Maelok

Units
- Gatorman Bokor and Bog Trog Swamp Shamblers
- Gatorman Posse
- Swamp Gobber Bellows Crew

Warbeasts
- Boneswarm
- Bull Snapper
- Ironback Spitter
- Swamp Horror

Solos
- Totem Hunter
- Thrullg
- Gatorman Witch Doctor
- Feralgeist
- Croak Hunter

So, on to my questions:

1. I am correct in thinking that I can use my Hordes models against my friends' Warmachine models, right?
2. Many of the models in the list above are not listed in my Minions rulebook. I hear that the models come with the rules for them, in the box. Is that right?
3. I understand from the internet and talking with friends that a standard game is often 25-35 points. With that in mind, and the fact that we are playing casually, and that I will be playing against Warmachine rather than Hordes forces, does the above constitute a sensible set of models to get to play games (buying one of each of the above sets)? By that I mean, can I make some tabletop-legal and fairly sensible lists to play at 25-35 points from the above? If not, why not?
4. What other models would be useful to get to build upon the above list?
5. Are there multiple sculpts for some of the Warbeasts/Solos? For example, if I wanted two Feralgeists or Bull Snappers, are there alternate sculpts (I only saw one of each on the PP website) or do I have to do some reposing/converting for variety?

Any advice would be appreciated--I have spent a bit of time with the rulebooks, and was pointed at the Battle College website already, but it would be good to get direct answers to the above as a sanity check.

1: Correct
2: Correct
3: Yes. That's at least 25-35pts.
4: Not much. Gators aren't a "Real" faction, it's a sub-faction of a side-faction. You've pretty much listed about 80%+ of the models available to the contract. You can always get Gatormen Posse in multiples.
5. Sometimes. Usually after a plastic->metal shift. I don't think there are any for gators though.

6: Minions isn't a great first faction due to the limited choices. There are places for gatormen, and even gator warbeasts in the main factions. If your gaming group gets big into the game you may feel constrained, particularly as your buddies get a lot more shiny toys.

1. Yep you can play your Gators against your friend's Cygnar (for example) just as easily as you can play against another person's Skorne.

2. Yep yep yep

3. 25 is usually a quite quick game, and it will depend on your local store very much what is 'normal'. My store the norm is 50, with 35 being played when you want something a bit quicker, and 15-25 being introductory game territory. As to the lists, I've never looked into Gators so I can't help you there, sorry.

4. Again, never looked into them so no real idea, sorry. I've heard the Wrongeye and Snapjaw are good fun and good though?

5. Only some things have an 'alternate' sculpt, and that is only when they have been changed from metal to plastic, the box has been reshuffled, or they are changed from their Mk I model to their Mk II model. But do feel free to convert, conversions are always awesome as long as you can clearly tell what them model is

To start:

1. Yes, Warmachine and Hordes are fully compatible. The only rules that are different are how each system handles casters/locks and jacks/beasts (warcasters and jacks use focus, warlocks and beasts use fury).

2. Warmahordes is different from 40k in that instead of each faction getting their own codex, all factions are updated simultaneously in a single book (technically two books, one for warmachine, one for hordes, with the releases staggered). Since Mk II, there have been 3 releases for each system. For Hordes, it is Primal (which is the 'forces of' book for each faction, and it contains every unit from Mk I and a couple of ones released for Mk II), Dominion, and Gargantuans. For Warmachine, its Prime, Wrath, Colossals, and the 4th expansion (Vengeance) is being released in April. You technically don't need any of the books (except for the main rule book for your faction) since ALL models come with the 'cards' for them which have their rules (for the most part, Wrath/Dominion have special rules for battle engines, and Colossals/Gargantuans have special rules for, well... Colossals and Gargantuans).

3. 25 to 35 points is considered a smaller game. The standard is more often 50 points. That being said, it is highly suggested that you start playing from a battlebox level to get a hang of the rules. Since I'm assuming you are coming from 40k, the rule set is significantly deeper, more complicated, and better written than 40k's, and there is a lot to take. Starting small and working up is the best solution. The rules for Journeymen leagues have an alternative battlebox suggestion for you, which will be helpful if your group starts from battle boxes since Minions don't have one. I've linked them here:

As per the specifics of Minions, I don't have much knowledge on what is good with them. Sorry.

4. See my previous point.

5. For a very small number of models there are alternative sculpts but for the most part its mono pose. That being said, you RARELY take more than 1 of a given unit or jack/beast, so same-pose syndrome is less of an issue. If you want a different pose, you are going to have to convert.

Thanks, all! This is helpful. Think I may gradually buy and work through those guys on the list. Yes, we are coming mostly from a WHFB/40k background although all play various RPGs too.

Motyak, yeah Wrongeye and Snapjaw looked fun too.

Regal, the link you mention in point 3 was missing but I guess it was this one, if so thanks, that's good to know a sensible place to start: http://privateerpress.com/files/Journeyman%20League%20Rules.pdf

 Magos Explorator wrote:
Thanks, all! This is helpful. Think I may gradually buy and work through those guys on the list. Yes, we are coming mostly from a WHFB/40k background although all play various RPGs too.

Motyak, yeah Wrongeye and Snapjaw looked fun too.

Regal, the link you mention in point 3 was missing but I guess it was this one, if so thanks, that's good to know a sensible place to start: http://privateerpress.com/files/Journeyman%20League%20Rules.pdf

Sorry about that, early morning, late night, and my caffeine from work was wearing off. Glad you found the link though.

Also, 2 units (or 3 units) of posse is pretty much the first thing you want for gators. They really are just the best thing in the faction (for better or worse) and they cover a lot of the sins of the other models in the faction by being so awesome...

That said, if Skorne appeals to you, some of them actually run gator-men posse better than gators do...and they get all the "big boy faction" toys on top of it. (plus there's nothing saying you can't paint your skorne green if you want and make them look like swamp people).

I'm not saying gators can't be fun because they sure can smack stuff (pigs on the other hand...) but you have to be a lot more careful about what stuff you put in.

I might suggest two things - a second caster, because sometimes variety is nice, even when you're starting off. Perhaps Rask would be a good option for you?

Secondly, I do hear good things about the Blackhide Wrastler, and think that might be a pretty core heavy for them. I don't play them myself, however, so take that as you will.

Wrassler is nice. He knocks himself and the opponent down but he still fights amazing while knocked down which gives him an interesting dynamic that is present no where else. This model is countered by being immune to knockdown or being colossal which is a pity.

 dementedwombat wrote:
Also, 2 units (or 3 units) of posse is pretty much the first thing you want for gators. They really are just the best thing in the faction (for better or worse) and they cover a lot of the sins of the other models in the faction by being so awesome...

That said, if Skorne appeals to you, some of them actually run gator-men posse better than gators do...and they get all the "big boy faction" toys on top of it. (plus there's nothing saying you can't paint your skorne green if you want and make them look like swamp people).

I'm not saying gators can't be fun because they sure can smack stuff (pigs on the other hand...) but you have to be a lot more careful about what stuff you put in.

Thanks for the suggestions; I don't really like the Skorne models, though, so will stick with the swamp-dwellers.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Maddermax wrote:
I might suggest two things - a second caster, because sometimes variety is nice, even when you're starting off. Perhaps Rask would be a good option for you?

Yeah, I thought about getting some other casters (all the models look pretty good, in my view). Rask seems to be viewed favourably based on what I read online, but I wondered if it might be a bit funny to have him leading a force without any proper Bog Trogs in it! Was tempted to buy and paint all the Warlock options for them anyway.

If your gaming group is just getting into the game I would recommend a Journeyman progression the rules can be found here: http://privateerpress.com/organized-play/leagues/journeyman-league-rules
If you go that route get Barnabus, Spitter and Wrastler, for 15 add a Snapper and either a Feralgheist or Swamp Gobbers, for 25 add a posse and run both gobbers and a gheist or swap both for a Croak Hunter. At the 35 caster swaps if you want a new play style maybe Rask and some Bog Trogs as well as a Horror.

I would like to second Hargus on his suggestion to start small and consider a Journeyman league. This will create some structure, help even out the learning curve for everyone, help guide list building a list, and prevent any major burnout from investing in 50 pts worth of models you don't enjoy.

I, personally, think Gator's are a fine staring point with the small exception of price. They don't have an actual battle box so you don't get the discounted point of entry. Also, they rely upon a backbone of heavy infrantry (Posse) so that can get quite expensive as well. Fortunately, their other main infantry choice (Bog Trogs) are about to be released in plastic so that should help the wallet some what.