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Hello all, I recently have begun experimenting with my new units and something has come up regarding Crisis versus Stealths as elite choices. 

It just seems to me that the Stealth Suit squad does its job better than an Elite Crisis suit squad does, but that if you use the HQ Crisis suits they do well at it.  It just seems to me that the over all balance of the list seems to work better when you use large amounts of stealth suits, while your shas o do the jobs that normal crisis squads would do?

Shas'o are also much more expensive.

It seems to me that StealthSuits have a nice defined purpose, *Crisis suits are a lot more flexible and can help fill any role gaps that you need in your army.

A squad of SS with no upgrade is 180 pts.

Take for example Deathrain configuration for long range support. 3 Crisis + TL Missile pods = 129pts. thats about 4-6 str7/ap4 shots where you need em.
Or TL PlasmaRifles, which are great for slaughtering heavier troops(probably a little more expensive with the new codex...) 3 crisis + TL PR = 165pts. again, 4-6 shots str6/ap2.

Usually I take both, I at least 1 squad of stealthsuits to give me a "surprise" factore, and I don't usually field all stealthsuits, or all crisis suits if I fill my elite choices.

*Edit: originally I said "stealth suits are a lot more....", what I meant was crisis suits.

Yes they sure do add flexibility! Adding more S5AP5 firepower surely fills a role in the Tau army. In absolutely no way whatsoever.

Yes they sure do add flexibility! Adding more S5AP5 firepower surely fills a role in the Tau army. In absolutely no way whatsoever.

Mobility. 

Yes they sure do add flexibility! Adding more S5AP5 firepower surely fills a role in the Tau army. In absolutely no way whatsoever.

THats foolish. Infiltrate has a grreat flexibility to that unit that crisis suits cant match.

Posted By Longshot on 04/08/2006 1:15 PM
Yes they sure do add flexibility! Adding more S5AP5 firepower surely fills a role in the Tau army. In absolutely no way whatsoever.

In addition, they also can take markerlights, giving them the ability to tote very accurate supporting fire, in addition to Seeker Missiles.

Purely from a cost perspective, buying 3 blister packs (for a total of 6 SS) of stealths usually costs 40-45 USD, depending on the store. buying a trio of crisis suits ranges from 60-70 USD, and that's without tax.

Also think about the quantity of said shots. Str.5 AP5 is good regardless, but when you're getting 18 shots per round, for 6 models (granted, while being 60pts more expensive than a FW squad), they get 6 more shots from the 18" to 12" range. below 12", the FW take up the slack with rapid fire. Then again, I don't know many Tau commanders that want enemy troops to get that close unless he's planning on wiping them out in that round of shooting.

CK

Everyone is seeming to forget that Stealth Suits get shot at a lot less, if you are 20+ inches away after your 6" run away in the assault turn people don't want to risk losing thier shots with a squad. Both are great and the CS is a lot more flexible but also has a big X painted on its forehead, the best way to go is to have both though, 6 Crisi (2x 3) and 6 stealth (1x6)

Except that criss suits dont get shot... Ok, mine don't.

Take what you will about what weapons to use, or worry about point costs and effectiveness. I just look at what happens on the table. Crisis suits (mine anyway) come in a unit of 2. Thats T4 and 4 wounds. The fairly small units size is perfect (two models) The JSJ combined with longer range firepower means its easier to be behind terrain, jump out shoot the long shot, and move back out of LOS. So even with small patches of terrain you can get a no LOS situation and lets face it, no LOS is better than stealth fields if you don't want to get shot. I begin looseing crisis suits around turn 4 or 5 (only once the enemy has moved closer and or got their more mobile elements into position). But if I've done my job right, they wont have any gun toting mobile elements anymore. So the only time I loose them is if they get assaulted or if/when I get backed into a corner.

Stealths while also having JSJ ability are cut short 6" or more inches of range on thier guns. That moves them closer to the enemy. Much closer to charge range for bikers, cavalry, and jump packers. Your right, stealths do not get shot at much, they get assaulted. And now T3 and 1 wound really sucks. Your not going to get your 3+ save against the other guys powerweapon/fist thats hitting on a 2+ and wounding on a 3+/2+. Loose 4 suits (easy enough to do with an 8 man assault squad) and your running for the hills. These guys are usually in a forward style position, and tend to start taking casulties earlier in the game. Mostly it has to do with being in range of more guns and more of the enemy forces can get LOS onto them. Also a fast moving assault unit can cause problems for them as well.

So while I do not advocate the crisis suit over the stealth suit, I feel that both units bring a lot to the table. This is why I use both. Two units of two crisis and one unit of 6 stealths. It works for me, but by all means I suggest you use what works for you.

Posted By Longshot on 04/08/2006 1:15 PM
Yes they sure do add flexibility! Adding more S5AP5 firepower surely fills a role in the Tau army. In absolutely no way whatsoever.

Just to note, when I said" stealth="" add="" flexibility="" ,="" i="" meant="" crisis="" suits="" that="" was="" a="" typo="" :p="">

anywho, crisis suits can JSJ, but so can stealth suits.

The major advantages I see of each are this.
Stealth Suits:
1. Can infiltrate, giving you firepower where you need it.
2. Draw attention away from your main forces and firepower
3. Can mow down hordes early, or take out tanks early
Crisis suits:
1. Fill gaps in what your army needs
2. Can be cheaper than stealth suits
3. Can move fast to be where your army needs.

In general when I use these units, I use stealth suits to give me fire support where I need it, and to draw the enemies attention to the 6 heavily armored things staring them in the face so that my main force can not be shot as much. I use Crisis suits to support all my other troops in whatever unfortunate endevors may occur. If terminators appear, I move in my plasma rifles to help the situation or if a flank is being flooded and cannot hold on its own, I send in the crisis to shift the flow of battle. Gamesworkshop stated something in the decision of the name like "crisis suits" were named due to the fact that they always seemed to help crisis situations.

*p.s.: I'd also like to note that the holofield is a big help. Not only does the enemy always have a chance of not hitting you unless your within 6 inches(which you usually arn't), they allow you to block off fire to them from things that could seriously hurt them. You could say, field them near some guard, or other weak firing units, while the heavy support teams, and dreadnaughts are on the other side, well outside range to make an effective sight check.

I agree with jayden pretty much. They both help, and what I use them for fits perfect for me.

In the beginning I used Crisis allmost exclusively. This changed after I read some very compelling posts on this very forum. On came the Stealths and they were great.

Now, with the appearance of more dropping Terminators and Dreads, I find myself missing the Crisis again.

I think my point is; both kinds of suit have their place in The Greater Good (tm).

 

Addendum 1: I dont play in tournaments (I think they ruin the game), so my average list never contains 3 railheads, and I meet other opponents that meqs.

Addendum 2: This is all based on a feeling. Even writing this Im too lazy to do the math.

Stealth suits worked out very slightly better at MEq per point than Crisis under the previous codex. Now that Crisis have got a teeny bit cheaper and can use drones again, the balance may have shifted back. Of course as someone pointed out above, the Stealth suit has the advantage of being immune to fire from distant units, having Infiltrate and so on.

Some of these things come down to your prefered style of tactics.

On a mostly related note...

When you are fielding those teams of crisis suits with tlmp or tlpr, what do you use for their third hardpoint to maximize their effectiveness? Targetting array? Drone Controller? Shield Generator?

I personally don't add the TA if the weapons TL. If its TL, I'm under the impression that its most likely going to hit, and I don't need to improve its BS. for PR they might be getting a little bit closer, so I might add a shield generator however I like to use drones to accomplish the task of taking hits. For anything else like TL MP, I really don't put much else on them but the weapons, maybe one of the new things like a positional relay, or C&C node if shadowsuns not on the field.
Unfortunatly, you need to select three support/weapon systems. In that case I would take something cheap, or maybe a weapon that will help incase of a surprise attack. I guess you could take the Target Array in this situation since you have to fill the slot anyways, and it would improve your chance to hit slightly. I might take a flamer, or burst cannon incase they get caught in a bad situation near some horde-type units. If the crisis are in a team, maybe take a target lock so you can spread the firepower out.

I still use the standard Fireknife.

Am going to start a new thread concerning some of the "old" Tau wisdom and its validity.

Fireknife is always a nice standby, and I still use them in some lists, but I've taken more to using a combination of Helios, Blinding Spear (as my HQ with the Ion Blaster replacing the commander's burst cannon), and Death Rain suits. Mostly it's because I want to specialize my individual units, but also because I wanted a little diversity.

more bang for the buck

-stealth suits are harder to see, but they only have 1 gun, i would rather take crisis suits and have better firepower if i were doing mechtau

Crisis suits may have 2 guns and even 2 wounds per model but stealths make up for this by getting 2 stealth suits for the cost of 1 crisis!

Personally I am set on using 2 stealth squads (3 suits, 5 drones), the 3rd elite slot is still open, a few deathrains is nice or I may end up with a 3rd stealth squad...time will tell.

Posted By vsurma on 04/13/2006 11:21 AM
Crisis suits may have 2 guns and even 2 wounds per model but stealths make up for this by getting 2 stealth suits for the cost of 1 crisis!

Personally I am set on using 2 stealth squads (3 suits, 5 drones), the 3rd elite slot is still open, a few deathrains is nice or I may end up with a 3rd stealth squad...time will tell.

true but the options for weapons are limited to a burst cannon or a fussion cannon.

as an example say you want to make an anti horde elite unit-6 stealth with burst  cannons law down 18 shots- a crisis team with multi trakers, burst cannons and smart missles can lay down 21-12 of which have longer range and ignore LOS and you can outfit your team leader with the HW drone controller/shield drones to add extra ptrotection and a HW target lock to optionally fire at a seperate target. (personally i like the plasma rifle/smart missle loadout).

 

Funny, my codex does not show smart missiles available to crisis suits.

I just don't see why I would want to give up having 2 wounds instead of 1 (with ALOT of added protection from drones)
and stealth (and stealth drones)

To take crisis suits if I wanted to go after infantry, if I am looking for other things like MC killers and my HS and HQ slots are not enough then sure I might want to take some crisis, but crisis as infantry killers?

I will stick with stealths for this role. personal preference.

And how do you get smart missiles on crisis suits? (checked twice, either I am blind or)

Posted By vsurma on 04/15/2006 4:06 PM
Funny, my codex does not show smart missiles available to crisis suits.

I just don't see why I would want to give up having 2 wounds instead of 1 (with ALOT of added protection from drones)
and stealth (and stealth drones)

To take crisis suits if I wanted to go after infantry, if I am looking for other things like MC killers and my HS and HQ slots are not enough then sure I might want to take some crisis, but crisis as infantry killers?

I will stick with stealths for this role. personal preference.

And how do you get smart missiles on crisis suits? (checked twice, either I am blind or)

sorry my bad i was just looking through the crisis suit weapons explanation section before i realised thats only for broadsides.....still i would take crisis over stealth for the simple fact i have more weapons options and range