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1- Belial

9- TH/SS terminator squad with land raider crusader

5- Lightning Claw terminators + 3 SB/PF and 2 Cyclone launchers

10- 6 terminators vanilla 2 with Cyclones 2 with chainfists

no idea how many points I am at as I bought this army cheap off ebay
All i know is that I think I need something added to this. Maybe a couple tac squads with missiles?
thix is my first marine army and I have only really played nids,orks,crons.

is pure deathwing good or should I buy some tac squads to hide behind a dakkapole on an aegis line with another crusader land raider?

Pure DW isn't terribly competitive, but that statement covers an awful lot of the DA codex.

You can't fit 9 terminators in a Crusader - it has a transport capacity of 16 but terminators are Bulky so they take up two slots each (so 8 termi's in a Crusader).

The above totals up at 1901 points, so if you want some wiggle-room for another unit you'll have to drop some termi's.

Suggested setup:

Belial

(1) 8 Terminators - 5 TH/SS, 3 LC - LR Crusader with DW upgrade

(2) 10 Terminators - 4 TH/SS, 2 CF, 2 Cyclones - Deathwing Assault with Belial

(3) 10 Terminators - 2 LC, 2 Cyclones

Belial goes with squad (2), deep strikes without scatter to get side/rear-armour shots on a tasty vehicle with cyclones, place TH/SS as nearest models to enemy plasma shots.
Squad (1) goes in Crusader and zoom up the board, (3) footslogs with 24" range shooting.

With the remaining points I'd suggest a Librarian in Terminator armour, to go with (3) and twin-link their shooting with Prescience.

Also, bag yourself a Codex in some form, gunna be difficult without it, eh?

{Edit} You could also break down squads (2) & (3) into 5-man groups to increase the number of scoring units you have. You could also consider taking the LRC as HS incase of the Big Guns Never Tire mission.

I am going to add I agree with what Quanar said, especially this:

 Quanar wrote:
{Edit} You could also break down squads (2) & (3) into 5-man groups to increase the number of scoring units you have. You could also consider taking the LRC as HS incase of the Big Guns Never Tire mission.

With a bit of an exception. IMHO, leave Belial's blob as 10 guys. He deep strikes them unerringly, and that's huge especially in an army where surgical precision to take out what'll be the biggest threats to you is required.

I'd also like to say, take at least one Heavy Flamer in his squad if not making that both your heavy weapons. Deathwing guys are twin-linked your turn they arrive from Deep Strike. Twin-linked Heavy Flamers you can position perfectly every time to devastate any non-MEQ army's backfield. Considering how important your alpha strike is with a Deathwing army, it's pretty important. The armies you're likely to struggle with most (Tau and Eldar), it's pretty great. Against Tau you can obliterate a large section of their markerlight support and against Tau, you can obliterate anything not in a transport.

We actually had a guy running a Deathwing blob with Belial who ran against an Eldar jetseer council. The Eldar player left his bikes on the field to start the game because you can't use their psychic powers when coming in from reserves anyway. Deathwing player stole the initiative, and Belial's guys killed all but 2 of the warlocks and the Farseer lost 2 wounds. Eldar guy was red in the face from embarassment some 600ish points were gone in a flash.

new plan I think

10- terminators 5 th/ss 2 lc 1 cf 2 cyclones + librarian
10- terminators 4 th/ss 3 lc 1 cf 2 heavy flamers + belial
5- ravenwing bikes
5- ravenwing bikes
2 land raider crusaders

my plan is to outflank the bikes and deepstrike the terminators onto them. I might take the first squad as 2 five man squads


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I am just worried that I will not be able to play a pure deathwing army the right way. am I just messing up the army I already have by looking too far into it?

You won't be able to outflank, as you'll have too many units in reserve, but you can use the Scout ability of the bikes to similar effect. Not sure the LR's add much to the army if they're not transporting units.

If you're worried about 'messing it up' - just have a few practice games, proxy a few different units, see how it goes. No-one does perfectly with an army the first time out.

The thing about Deathwing terminators, and the reason they are significantly better than Terminators in any other Space Marine codex, is they can deep strike without the need to roll reserves turn 1 or turn 2. (The split fire coming default, as well as being twin-linked when arriving via Deep Strike, AND preferred enemy Chaos Marines/Fearless due to Inner Circle is just icing on the cake and more than justifies their 4+ points more than regular terminators.)

Outflanking bikes would defeat that purpose, as they'd at best come in turn 2 and as they wouldn't have already been on the board at turn's beginning, you couldn't utilize their teleport homers.

It's also worth noting Ravenwing Attack Squads can combat squad at 6 guys into two seperate 3-man units. It's better to have one squad of 6 and another of 4, than two squads of 5 IMHO. It allows you to bring more potential squads so you have 3 to scout move forward in turn 1, in order to minimize the risks of all of them being blown off the board before the terminators can land.

I also agree Land Raiders aren't worth their points if they aren't transporting units. Even then, most people agree they are too expensive for what they do. Dropping those frees up 500+ points, which is a lot more dudes. Only your terminators are scoring in this scenario so an idea is just bring a few bare-bones Tactical squads to sit on objectives in your deployment zone, or better yet bring a third terminator squad and use the extra points on maybe an Attack Bike with Multi-Melta or two, or more bikers to bring both squads to 6, and some Land Speeders with rockets.

Belial
10 terminators: 5 TH/SS 2 TC 2 Cyclones 2 Chainfist

8 Terminators 5 TH/SS 2 TC 1 Cyclone
Land raider crusader transport

10 Terminators 1 TH/SS 1 LC 2 Cyclones

The 8 man squad and land raider are the units I will drop if I need points, most likely to go towards some Dreadnoughts with Lascannons and Missile launchers

Personally I'd run Belial in a Landraider, and use the extended hull of the landraider to boost the range of his teleport homer. Use the landraider to shield you squads from fire once they've come down.
Time it so that you charge from the landraider the turn your units come down in an attempt to overwhelm the opposition, as opposed to serving them one unit at a time.

I'd usually run squads of 5, you are already short of scoring units, don't handicap yourself further.

Guaranteed deep strike is good, but the real reason deathwing are so much better is the fact they are fearless. It removes so much of the randomness of normal play. TL on the turn you arrive is nothing great, and in fact a lot of the time you will want to run when you arrive, as if you don't you'll get plasma plates to the face next turn.

Landraider crusaders are the way to go IMO. Many people use 2 of them at 1850 when playing pure deathwing.

 Big Blind Bill wrote:
Personally I'd run Belial in a Landraider, and use the extended hull of the landraider to boost the range of his teleport homer. Use the landraider to shield you squads from fire once they've come down.
Time it so that you charge from the landraider the turn your units come down in an attempt to overwhelm the opposition, as opposed to serving them one unit at a time.

I'd usually run squads of 5, you are already short of scoring units, don't handicap yourself further.

Guaranteed deep strike is good, but the real reason deathwing are so much better is the fact they are fearless. It removes so much of the randomness of normal play. TL on the turn you arrive is nothing great, and in fact a lot of the time you will want to run when you arrive, as if you don't you'll get plasma plates to the face next turn.

Landraider crusaders are the way to go IMO. Many people use 2 of them at 1850 when playing pure deathwing.

It doesn't really "boost" the range of his teleport homer in any meaningful way, which is why I'm surprised so many people say to do that. Yeah it's 6 inches measured from the hull of a bigger thing than a 40mm base but it's still just 6" beyond your deployment zone. A land raider can't be deployed further than Belial could start on the board and the point is to get your Deathwing as close to enemies as possible on turn 1 because your alpha strike makes or breaks your Deathwing games.

If you're utilizing Deathwing assault on turn 2, then maybe it's worth it. Ram the tank 18" forward and hope they don't have any melta or lance to blow up the tank. Risky. Not worth it IMHO. If you want teleport homers, use 250 points worth of bikes. They'll get that 12" scout move in there and make your deathwing where they need to be more reliably.

I agree about groups of 5, generally. I just like the one 10 man blob for the guaranteed surgical deep strike to take out two key targets utilizing splitfire and the heavy weapons guys. 10 scoring terminators blowing up key targets of your opponent and then immediately sitting on an objective on the ENEMY board side is pretty grisly nasty awesome.

There are more ways the play DW than simply dumping your terminators down 1st turn.
Its 6 inches around a giant LoS blocking box, which will keep all of your units focused on one position, instead of dropping a unit across the table with no support, and also protect them from enemy fire when they do land.
Landraiders are key to playing Deathwing with any chance of success in a more competitive environment. A DW landraider with a PFG bike techmarine behind it is very durable. I'd put my money on it surviving over a squad of deep striking terminators anyday of the week.

Deathwing assault isn't as nearly as damaging as you make it out to be. 10 terminators dropping in with belial and 2 HF is 650 points at least. They fire a grand total of 18 bolter shots, and 2 HF templates, all TL. For 65 points less a SW drop pod army could bring down 3 drop pods, containing 30 marines and 6 plasmaguns, putting out 54 bolter, and 12 plasma shots. That's 3 times as many bolter shots (although admittedly not TL), and packing far more special weapons.

Point for point terminator shooting is bad, so spending 400+, or even 600+ points on a unit designed to do just this is a waste of potential imo.

Whilst CML is nice to split fire and try to destroy vehicles....it is no meltagun.

Terminators have always been strongest in assault, and the landraider is the best way to get there. It allows you to get a turn 2 charge, dictate who you engage, and protects your terminators from harm.
Putting Belial in there ensures that your DW assault units will arrive in a protected position, and also enables him to focus on what he is best at, which is assault.