Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

We don't play with Escalation in my area and I dislike the idea of Serpent spam or Seer Council armies, so here's my take on Deathstar Eldar. I'm looking for advice on what I could improve, with what to better support my deathstar and what armies might give me problems.


HQ:

Autarch: Eldar Jetbike, Banshees Mask, Fusion Gun, Scorpion's Chainsword, Shard of Anaris(Warlord) - 143

Farseer: Eldar Jetbike, Singing Spear, Runes of Warding - 130

(DE): Baron Sathonyx - 105


Troops:

3 WRJ - 51

5 Rangers - 60

10 Guardians - 90
+ Wave Serpent: TL Scatterlasers, Shuriken Cannon - 130

(DE): 5 Kabalite Warriors - 45
+ Venom: extra Splinter Cannon, Nightshields, Grisly Trophies - 80


Fast Attack:

9 Shining Spears: Exarch, Star Lance, Monster Hunter, Hit and Run - 265

Crimson Hunter Exarch - 180

6 Swooping Hawks: Exarch, Sunrifle - 121


Heavy Support:

3 War Walkers: dual Scatterlasers - 210

Wraithknight - 240


With the Baron, I have 2+ cover save when I turbo-boost, have grenades and if I have to, I can put all 3 characters on tank duty for the small arms fire. It works similar to a Seer Council, except it's cheaper, harder-hitting, less survivable and less reliant on psychic powers. It can also Outflank, although that wouldn't be my first choice for their deployment. And 1 out of 6 games, it will score. The rest of my army is focused around doing damage from a safer distance, to lessen the pressure on my deathstar.

Two of my other units are specifically designed to synergize with the Shining Spears: The Wraithknight and the Swooping Hawks. Last game I played with this, I turboboosted my Spears near a big blob of Fire Warriors, while my Hawks deep struck next to them and Blinded the unit, ensuring the Spears lost only 1 model before the next turn. The Wraithknight is there to eat overwatch or just jump around all big and scary and be a great fire magnet.

Finally, the Spears can be given a counter-attack role against armies with fast CC units, like the WS or Wraiths and of course, they're here to murder MCs. The squad will kill any MC they are able to shoot + charge.

I really like the feel of this list and it works, but perhaps I could still improve on it. That's where you peeps come in.

It's interesting. Whenever I see SpearStars though, I always wonder if they'd benefit by taking a Shining Spear Exarch instead of the Autarch and adding another farseer for the roll for fortune. I'm not sure how badly that would affect its damage output but it seems like ti could gain a lot more utility out of the second Seer.

Possibly drop the war walkers for another Serpent? It'll only put out half the dakka on average, but it doesn't need a farseer to baby sit it and it's twice as durable. That would also get you another scoring unit which never hurts.

Also, I like (that is fear) Warp Spiders alot more than Sooping Hawks, but it's just a taste thing.

Other than that it looks pretty solid. Seems like a fun list to play with and against.

Thanks for your comment!

The Autarch is here for reserve manipulation anyway, although I suppose I could aim for Scrier's Gaze, which isn't a given and requires a valuable power. Fortune isn't as vital here, since the unit is around 250 points cheaper than the Council and retains most of it's punch(since Witchblades are AP6, you need weight of attacks to kill stuff, not so here) even when you start losing members. Even if 6 or 7 Spears die, I still carry enough punch to make a mess of someone's backfield. And I do have the Exarch too.

War Walkers are actually more durable than a Serpent. Not 1 by 1 ratio, but 3 of them are 6 HP, instead of 3 and they always have 5++, plus they can outflank and ensure they hit what they need to. Battle-focus brings them to unfair levels of mobility, as you play hide and seek at 36" away, my usual opponents go nuts. And without Guide, you're still hitting with 16 S6 shots on average.

Warp Spiders are amazing, I love them, but I've used them for the entire 5th and 6th edition(thus far), so I need a break, and Hawks are amazing as well, in their own way. Plus the Hawks are gorgeous models, while the Spiders are very old, bland and static.

Your math is off on your serpent, but overall it checks out.

I know your a fan of vectored engines, and they are by no means bad, but I would swap them for holo fields, or perhaps a nightshield and trophies on your venom. Venoms are very fragile, so they need the extra support. With the trophies, you can set up for early game re rolling of psychic tests, and the morale boost never hurts.

The spear exarch could use hit and run, just in case the baron gets instagibbed with an unlucky roll. Always nice to have a backup so you don't get stuck fighting terminators or something nasty that will eat you over time.

Actually, it doesn't check out, nice catch! I'm sitting 5 points over. Vectored Engines are great with Guardians, but yeah, I figured I might switch them for something else.

List of options I considered: Dropping Soulshrive for 30 points, switching the Shard to the Autarch and buying Holofields and Nightshields on the Venom. Or dropping 1 Spear to grab Hit and Run for redundancy and again Nightshields.

 Araenion wrote:
Thanks for your comment!

The Autarch is here for reserve manipulation anyway, although I suppose I could aim for Scrier's Gaze, which isn't a given and requires a valuable power. Fortune isn't as vital here, since the unit is around 250 points cheaper than the Council and retains most of it's punch(since Witchblades are AP6, you need weight of attacks to kill stuff, not so here) even when you start losing members. Even if 6 or 7 Spears die, I still carry enough punch to make a mess of someone's backfield. And I do have the Exarch too.

War Walkers are actually more durable than a Serpent. Not 1 by 1 ratio, but 3 of them are 6 HP, instead of 3 and they always have 5++, plus they can outflank and ensure they hit what they need to. Battle-focus brings them to unfair levels of mobility, as you play hide and seek at 36" away, my usual opponents go nuts. And without Guide, you're still hitting with 16 S6 shots on average.

Warp Spiders are amazing, I love them, but I've used them for the entire 5th and 6th edition(thus far), so I need a break, and Hawks are amazing as well, in their own way. Plus the Hawks are gorgeous models, while the Spiders are very old, bland and static.

Trust me I've learned how deceptively awesome battle focus is. Ruins my plans on a weekly basis lol.

And I guess it's just a gut feeling thing about the War Walkers, I know on paper they have more HP, 5+ inv etc., but usually when I catch them I wipe the squad whereas it always seems to take a couple turns to down a Serpent. Just my two cents. I did forget about them outflanking which can make them quite good.

Anyway, test it out. I'd love to see it in action,

War Walkers require a deft touch, more so than any other Eldar HS. Once they're caught, bar extreme luck, they're destroyed. Sometimes it's even worth keeping them in reserve on purpose, until main threats to them are dealt with. This way, they're sure to live till the end game and nothing kills troops camping objectives than 24 TL S6 shots.

That said, you've not advised anything bad, it's just that War Walkers are kind of the staple of my lists, they've always been among my top favourite units in general.

Any army that has artilery will do some damage against this army easily enough to snipe out the singing spears to just leave 3 characters what once you force wounds on them they die.

IMO all eldar armies need a Vaul support battery they are jsut too good at what they do. Also i think if you are going to run all SL on Warwalkers its worth saving 15 pts and just giving one each a SL so you can have 3 SC TL that can rend.

Also i would give your Autarch the Shard, if you are casting off pyshic power you are risking perils. SO you dont wanna go into a chalange already short handed a wound. Not to mention Farseers only have 1 attack base. Also why waste the points on giving them a singing spear? true you can throw it but what are the chances you will throw it at something you want to assault.

I would drop the rangers they dont really fit what you are doing in this army. 9/10 your waveserpeant will home home objectives, i would get another squad of eldar jetbikes for more maneuverability.

 Nettik189 wrote:
Any army that has artilery will do some damage against this army easily enough to snipe out the singing spears to just leave 3 characters what once you force wounds on them they die.

I played against a nasty mech IG list a few days ago and there are ways around artillery. Problem is Barrage doesn't strip Jink, so I'll usually just turbo boost next to the artillery piece with 2+ cover and assault next turn. Sure, it'll kill a couple Spears, but they're just extra wounds and attacks for my Autarch, Exarch and Baron.

IMO all eldar armies need a Vaul support battery they are jsut too good at what they do. Also i think if you are going to run all SL on Warwalkers its worth saving 15 pts and just giving one each a SL so you can have 3 SC TL that can rend.

I agree, Vaul's Wrath is really good. Unfortunately, they're ridiculously expensive and old models. Also, Shuriken Cannons have 24" range, War Walkers need to be as far away as possible to have any hope of surviving. They're way too expensive and valuable to just throw at enemy lines.

Also i would give your Autarch the Shard, if you are casting off pyshic power you are risking perils. SO you dont wanna go into a chalange already short handed a wound. Not to mention Farseers only have 1 attack base. Also why waste the points on giving them a singing spear? true you can throw it but what are the chances you will throw it at something you want to assault.

The Shard isn't really there for challenges. It's there to provide Fearless. But I'm switching back and forth between artifacts and haven't yet found a perfect combination.

I would drop the rangers they dont really fit what you are doing in this army. 9/10 your waveserpeant will home home objectives, i would get another squad of eldar jetbikes for more maneuverability.

I feel the Rangers are perfect for me, as my Wave Serpent is going forward, not stay backwards. This isn't an army that can afford to stay at max range, as it doesn't have nearly enough shooting for that. What it does have is a lot of threat, so wasting any kind of firepower on a squad of 5 snipers hiding in a ruin either means my opponent should get a course in target priority or that I'm in the process of being tabled, which I can't actually remember ever happening to me.

I wouldnt count IG as a good example for an army yo compare your army against barrrage. Not saying they dont have lot of barrage but they arent a current meta army. SM and Eldar are the 2 main lists that would have artilery thats meta.

Against SM you have several issues. First off Orbital Bombardment 1st turn could wipe out the squad almost turn one. Passing that up your main concern and what alot of people like to take, TFC they have a STR5 ignores cover shot that can easily force wounds on the squad. and if they take 2(which alot do) they can do a tremor shot and when ever you move you take a dangerous terain check which has to posibilty on putting wounds on characters you dont want to.

As for eldar Vaul Support batery(like i said they all should have) with misfortune/ reveal any number of pyshic abilities that ignore your cover and can rend (monofiaent or however you spell it).

Also Tau just dont care about what ever you call cover and negate it all.

If you play agresssive then i would defently keep the rangers for a home field objective holder.

Orbital bombardment should get 3 hits on average and if I am standing in area terrain I get a 4+ cover from that. TFC has Ignores Cover rule? I was always told it's just Barrage. Anyway, tremor wouldn't do a thing, since Shining Spears have Skilled Rider by default.

As for Eldar, I'm more concerned about weight of fire not caring about any sort of save I have(getting a taste of my own medicine, so to speak) and Tau? Well, I have limited Tau experience, in that two Tau armies I regularly play are more balanced than the netlists you see online, so I can't really say how I'd fare against pentatide lists or whatever.

Your Exarch for the spears needs hit and run, if that unit gets bogged into combat its done, it will not survive a second round of combat no matter what.

I made some amendments to the list according to advice given. Tell me what you think!

If he has baron in the unit he has hit and run.

Tfc have 3 shots one of them ignore cover also if hit with tremor your farseer autarch and baron still would need to take the test seeing as they dont have skilled rider.

The list looks good just one thing I would make the farseer the warlord bc you wanna do as many challanges as you can with the shard just incase he dies in a challange your warlord isnt dead.

I personally like Rangers a lot when taken in small amounts. They score, so they can't be ignored when close enough to move onto an objective late game. But shooting them with anything but Ignores Cover stuff is a waste when they go to ground. I use them in conjunction with objective placement to help fragment the enemy army and focus down weak battle groups.

I'm not entirely sold on the Autarch's loadout. It's a good unit, for sure, but I question its necessity within a unit of 8 LLances and a Star Lance. A unit of Spears that big is plenty killy, so I think the Autarch could be doing something else on his own with a Fusion Gun/Laser Lance/Mantle/Bike setup. That lets him operate solo or keep close enough to support if necessary. He can also soak a lot of shooting and distract the opponent because he hits so hard vs elite units and vehicles. Your Spears would lose Fearless, but I feel like you're already in a lot of trouble if you were relying on that when you are rolling against Ld10 (as in, you would probably have lost combat by a lot if you are worried about failing and so the unit may be very diminished anyway).

I love Scatter Walkers, but I find myself running Scatter/BL these days and I love it. I split them up into different squadrons where possible and find they do very well at killing any kind of unit. They're less than optimal against Orks and IG, but still good. Pretty sure the math is better against heavy armored targets. They do well vs. vehicles and all right vs flyers.

Just a few thoughts. Overall I really like your list. It looks like it does a lot of damage and has a lot of variety. I think your deployment and movement options look really fun and tricky. Always a great thing. I wish you the best with it!

I think its a clever list. You should playtest the crap out of it against as many armies as you can. That is the true test to its strengths and weaknesses. In skilled hands your list can be very effective but if you misplay your units you could get tabled. Try to go against an assault heavy army and see how you perform.

Crimson hunter is garbage in my humble opinion. I would never take it. Warp spiders or DA in wave serpents are classic choices.

@Nettik189

Skilled Rider transfers to the whole squad if even one model has it. So everyone is safe.

 dnanoodle wrote:
I'm not entirely sold on the Autarch's loadout. It's a good unit, for sure, but I question its necessity within a unit of 8 LLances and a Star Lance. A unit of Spears that big is plenty killy, so I think the Autarch could be doing something else on his own with a Fusion Gun/Laser Lance/Mantle/Bike setup. That lets him operate solo or keep close enough to support if necessary. He can also soak a lot of shooting and distract the opponent because he hits so hard vs elite units and vehicles. Your Spears would lose Fearless, but I feel like you're already in a lot of trouble if you were relying on that when you are rolling against Ld10 (as in, you would probably have lost combat by a lot if you are worried about failing and so the unit may be very diminished anyway).

Just a few thoughts. Overall I really like your list. It looks like it does a lot of damage and has a lot of variety. I think your deployment and movement options look really fun and tricky. Always a great thing. I wish you the best with it!

Well since we're talking about going up against assaulty armies.....Don't get me wrong, I think the list is both competitive and has cool factor, but I think my Dual Khorne Herald and Hounds list could pose a serious threat to this list. The Khorne Heralds are nasty and are one of the few things that will actually strike at least simultaneously with the characters in the SpearStar. Besides that it'd be a game of cat and mouse between my mini screamerstar and you're serpent and war walkers. Wraithknight....well he's definitely a nuisance. Definitely would be a fun game. Ha I think i'm gonna convince my eldar playing brother to proxy this so we can duke it out (he's Helvost on here btw I see you comment on most of his lists)

Hahaha! Sure, go for it! Let me know how it goes

Screamers are shut down by a Wraithknight. It'll take them at least a few turns to kill him in CC. And with Banshees Mask, your Initiative is at -5 in first round of combat, so that should give the Star an edge over the Heralds.

But I must admit, I've never faced a Daemon list like that, so wouldn't know what to expect. It sounds like a nasty army to face,

Ah freaking banshee masks!! I forgot about them. . . It's been so long since I've played them. I thought I was done with them once they got hit with the nerf bat!!! That definitely makes it much more of a cointoss as to who wins in that situation.

It's a nasty list, but it really doesn't like going up against boat loads of S6 shooting, and Eldar are the reigning king of that.

As for the wraithknight, i'd probably try to tarpit him in one of the two squads of hounds + herald. The herald would probably have a decent chance of killing him in a couple rounds of combat as he's got 5 attacks WS7 I6 and an AP2 weapon that inflicts instant death on a 6. Plus lots of doges to slough wounds onto.

This is probably an exercise in futility, as we'll never know til its played out, but its fun!

Indeed! In this case, I'd probably try and focus down one Hound squad with shooting, while feeding you my Rangers or Guardians to assault with the other, then shoot and assault you on my next turn with the Spearstar.

Both armies are equally mobile and rather tough, where I have the advantage is that I have a few cheap, throaway units that I can sacrifice in order to buy myself another turn, while you have the advantage of 3 CC units, instead of 2. And I'd probably aim to get Misfortune on my Farseer to really ruin your day. We -could- play this out on Vassal, actually. Although I haven't used it in about two years, so don't remember a lot about using it.

Hey good idea. I don't have vassal but could definitely get it soon. PM and we can do it when I have time in the near future

I feel ya on losing a big unit of Spears to morale. Once I lost a full unit in one turn to a pair of failed tests at Ld9. Pretty much did cost me the game.

The LOLtarch, as I call him hehe, does fall fast to high volume ignores cover fire. In those cases I hide him behind BLOS terrain (luckily he's small, being just one guy) while I get him in position and deal with the threat using other units. In an area where there are a lot of Eldar I doubt I'd want to do that every other game though. It'd get tiresome always worrying about him getting owned quickly and being out a hefty number of points to a relatively small application of force.

@Astro_nomicon: If you get Vassal, let me know, I'd love to get some games in that way!

@Dnanoodle: Exactly, and my friend playing against me once had failed LD10 morale with a WS Biker Command squad and drove off the board in a turn. The look on his face was heartbreaking.

Exactly about the LOLTarch. Not only that, but I found him more often than not just a portable BS6 melta, which is good against mostly SM armies, not so good against others. And 150 points is a lot.