Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hello,

I am looking to get into the game and have set aside some funds for this. I have a few Factions I am thinking of and want some opinions.

First and foremost I REALLY like the look of Captain Kraye for Cygnar, I like the feel of his special rule and I really want to run as many Jacks as possible and he looks like he can get it done. 2 Focus to auto boost range attacks rolls and a nice feat to go along with everything. However try as I might I can't seem to put together a list I really like. If I went Cygnar I really want to try and stay away from the Stormwall, and while Light Jacks are cheap I would assume they don't win games with a average of POW 10-12 across the table.
Other than Kraye Cain (in all his forms) looks and feels more like I would want to play but I can't see myself running many warjacks with him, if possible I would want to have a lot of jacks on the table.

Epic Varyos from the Retribution seems pretty cool being on a horse like Kraye, he has a spell synergy which seems to reward the player for taking a lot of jacks, but his feat confuses me in the fact that I wouldn't know what to do with it.
Ossyan also seems pretty cool with his feat and liking shooting in general , but it isn't as obvious to me what I should take with him and how he would match up against other armies, especially if they bring a colossal. He would want Hypnos for sure but after that I draw a blank.

My last couple of guys is Magnus for mercs, he looks like a lot of fun but I also seem to have a problem in deciding what to pick, he also doesn't seem like someone who would run a lot of jacks, maybe 2-3 at most. In addition Mercs have a lot of options available to them and I don't know what to do.
Other than Magnus, Gorten Grundback seems pretty cool but he is so sloooooooow, and he also seems like someone who would not run a lot of jacks, despite the majority of the ones he can take needing only one focus.

Basically if possible I want to run a lot of jacks, most people I see playing take 1-3, of those maybe 1 light and 2 heavy's. I would like that number to be closer to 5+ for myself, but is that viable? I would also like to shoot effectively and for more than a single turn barring some super long and fast surprise charges from the enemy, The big colossals scare me and playing with one feels like a crutch, what could I take in the above armies to deal with one if I fought one,

So here is the thing with running the amount of Jacks you want to. In this game your warcaster has a focus amount that is equal to a number somewhere between 5 and 10, 6 and 7 being the most common. You use these to cast and upkeep spells and then to allocate to your jacks so they can be more powerful. The jacks can use the focus to charge, boost the attack roll, boost a damage roll, power attack, run and so on and 1 focus per. So the thing is lets say every turn you upkeep one spell and you need to cast a spell with a cost of 2 your focus 6 caster is now down to 3 focus to allocate to those jacks. Without a focus the most a typical jack can do is advance and make their initial 1-2 attacks or just shoot, however if a RAT 5 or MAT 6-7 jack plans on hitting a DEF 14 model it will need to roll anywhere from a 7-9 and average on 2 dice is 7 so in a lot of cases you will want the focus to boost.

Therefore in the Warmachine armies it is difficult to run many jacks, therefore they have been given the name infantrymachine. But since you like the idea of jacks lets work on some options:

- Vyros can actually run Griffons really well and I have heard of people taking up to 7 with him, not sure how it works though. The idea being Synergy with help balance the boosting of attack and damage rolls. Once they chain works up to 3 or more it is about the same as boosting an attack and Griffons actually have powerful charge which helps them to hit on the charge which will then increase Synergy.

- Cyriss vectors (jacks) have an Induction Node so when they use a focus it goes to another jack within 6 inches for them to use this makes them more focus efficient they also have a vector called a Corollary coming out next month that makes them more focus efficient. If you like the idea of running 5+ jacks Syntherion's tier is great for this.

- Gorten or I should say Searforge. One of the nice things about the Grundback Blaster and Gunner is they have an ability called powerful attack, they can spend one focus to boost all attacks and damage rolls. So if the blaster is able to catch 5 models in his spray he we be rolling 5 boosted attack rolls against those models and if he hits he gets to boost the damage as well. Now lets take a look at their 2 common heavies. Driller has sustained attack on his drill so all he really needs to do is boost the initial attack roll and then you can use focus to buy additional attacks that auto hit. Basher has grand slam which means it can slam without spending focus and as the name implies slamming is what he does best. They also have access to a solo called Thor Steinhammer, this guy is a jack marshal which allows for some abilities that allow a jack under his command to do that normally would require a focus, he can also use an action called Tune Up to give a jack boosted attack or damage rolls for the turn, he also has an ability called pronto which can allow for an out of activation full advance for a jack. Pronto is great with things like a Basher allowing it to get into position before activating and slamming. Now the downside of all this is Gorten's focus which is only 5 and Durgen and Ossrum only have focus of 6 and Ossrum prefers infantry and Durgen a different charter then Searforge only, which isn't bad. And if you are worried about Gorten being slow realize the Searforge Commission extends their deployment zone by 4 inches and his feat can be used to drag enemies to him. Also IMO his Journeyman Box is probably the best one out there, 3 lights and 1 heavy is crazy and most low point games will end with a feat for the -3DEF and the placement within range for Gorten and the Gunners to blast away at the enemy warcaster or warlock.

I would also like to add if you are really interested in the Steampunk that is Warmachine follow the advice above. However, you will be limited to 1 maybe 2 warcasters in each faction that can run 3-5 jacks, if you like spending $300 on an army for 1 warlock that will get boring in a few months and you never can switch up and run jack heavy then go for it. If you just like the idea of big lumbering models that kick ass look to Hordes. The Fury mechanism is not as easy as the focus one is but it does have more perks such as transferring damage. Also beasts aren't limited to 3 focus like a warjack most can be forced (gain fury which is similar used to focus for buying and boosting attacks, charging and power attacks) up to commonly 4 and in some cases 5 times. The downside of forcing your beasts too much is your warlocks Fury stat (think focus stat in warmachine) is the limit of how much fury it can then leach off the beasts at the beginning of their next turn to use for spell casting. However.... most hordes have access to a unit or solo that can remove fury from a model to manage all that forcing. For example my Skorne Pain Giver Beast Handlers can remove the all the fury of up to 4 beasts for a minimum unit of them. So I can have 4 shooty beasts boost all the attacks and damage rolls, use their animus (did not mention this but beasts unlike jacks come with a "spell" they can be forced to cast) and then strip off all the fury like they never did anything but the effects and damage are done. It is not uncommon for me to field 4-5 beasts a game with my Skorne.

P.S. also don't be afraid of Gargossals seriously 2 jacks can usually scrap one in a round with some support and some armies actually get ones that are worth their high point costs.

First off TYVM for such a long starting post!

So the gist is I will not be succesful by running so many jacks. That makes me a sad panda.

So lets say I am looking at Retribution, assuming I run 2 jacks as you suggest what would be a good starting point? The pheonix seems amazing however it costs 10 points and from what I understand this is a high cost. Is it worth it? Especially on those focus 6 casters? Im leaning towards Vyros (epic or not) and Ossyran, and I am eyeing the no attacks focus 8 chick. Iyrissa or something iirc.

Maybe ask around at local game stores and see if they are starting a Journeyman league and then I would recommend the Alternate Ret Box of:
Lord Arcanist Ossyan
• Banshee
• Sphinx
While a Pheonix is amazing, a journeyman league is a great way to learn the game. To round out 15 points maybe add a griffon or 2 arcanists and 1 mage hunter assassin.

Would a mage Hunter assasian work well with Ossyran? He seems to want lot of things with guns. Following your previous low jack advise i cooked up.

Ossyran +6
Hypnos 9
Rifleman 9
UA+Souless
Rifleman Thane 2
MHSF 11
UA+Souless
Storm Fall Aarchers 5
Storm Fall Aarchers 5

35

As for a starter league there are a few shops around me that do that in addition to other things, so it wouldnt be hard to find fights of around 15 points. The banshee looks fantastic, would you take the sphinx over hypnos though with ossyran?

Mage hunter assassins are really good at the battlebox level and are in generally really good solos. As for advice I'll defer to someone who knows Retribution better. MHSF is amazing though and definitely get the UA with it.