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Hey Dakka,

I've played Raven guard for a long time, but I just don't think that chapter is competitive anymore, so I'm looking into using a different chapter / strategy.

Right now, I'm thinking either Iron Hands or Imperial Fists. I like terminators (with land raiders) and vehicles. I've got *tons* or Power Armor marines and weapons, so I can build whatever I want there, but I only have one rhino/predator, and a land raider. I also have 2 AoBR dreadnoughts and something like 15 terminators. I've also got a full unit of assault marines and 5 sniper scouts. I'm willing to buy a few more models if I need to, but I'd like to avoid many hundreds of dollars of purchasing. In terms of allies available, I have Imperial Guard and Tau.

I don't need full lists, per se, just ideas. I'll probably be adding a Stormraven to my collection regardless, so That's a good inclusion too.

Identify the needs of your army, the threats you will face, and the slots open to you on the FOC. Look through each section to determine which unit fills each role and to what extent. Make a thusly informed decision on which unit to then use for each slot. In this way, I find an army fairly well builds itself.

Insomuch as Chapter tactics, select them first, not second. Army composition varies on tactics. I would, for example, field Devastators for Imperial Fists but a Laspred or Vindicator for Iron Hands.

I'm leaning a bit more towards Iron Fists now.

Thinking something like:

MoTF

a few tac squads with rhinos

LRC + TH/SS terminators + Terminator Librarian

Stormraven

Predator / vindicator if I can fit it.

I don't like the model so much, but I'm quickly learning how durable Stormravens are. With IWND and MoTF repairing, I can see them being annoying. I run 2 in my Salamanders and they usually live all game (short of a few hullpoints).

Note, the Iron Hands have a supplement that allow you to get multiple Techmarines per HQ. Might want to look into that supplement and try 2 Techmarines + 5 Scouts in each for late game objectives control.

Raukaan supplement also allows a librarian to run around with a force thunder hammer for the cost of a PW. Pretty fluffy.

*woah*. Force TH?! Ok, gotta get that supplement!

My current list:

Librarian - 180 points
- Terminator Armour
- Mastery 2
- Digital Weapons
- Shield Eternal

Techmarine - 90
- Servo Harness
- Power Axe

Techmarine - 90
- Servo Harness
- Power Axe

Tactical Squad -205
- 9 marines
- Rhino
- Missile Launcher
- Meltagun
- Meltabombs

Tactical Squad -205
- 9 marines
- Rhino
- Plasma Cannon
- Plasma Gun

Tactical Squad -155
- 9 marines
- Heavy Bolter
- Flamer

Assault Terminators - 495
- 5x TH & SS
- Land Raider Crusader
-- Multi Melta
-- Extra Armour

Stormtalon - 125
- Skyhammer

StormRaven - 205
- Extra armor

I vaguely remember reading that you can take 1 techmarine per HQ choice, but Battlescribe lets me take 2, so I'm not 100% sure.

Raukaan supplement, again. In the supplement each HQ slot gives you access to 2 Techmarines, and MotF gets you 3.

Power axes are rather silly to take on a techmarine with a Servo-Harness (check out the profile for a Servo-Arm, a Harness has two of those).

Plasma cannons on squads that move don't get to fire. Heavy weapons that move in general only snap fire. When you move a rhino with marines inside, they count as having moved.

Shield Eternal on a 2W model. Eeeeeh. It's your Warlord, so it's not a terrible idea, but a stock Librarian is 2W at 65pts. Spending 50 more to protect those 2W seems a bit extraneous and silly. I'd just throw tac marine bodies in front of him.

If you are paying 90 points for a techmarine with a harness and axe, why not get a basic MotF for the same cost? You have the spare HQ slot. And while fluffy, it’s not like the axe is doing them a lot of good with the harness.

I don’t think extra armor is worth it these days. Digital weapons are another thing I’m kinda sketchy on as well.

Is the foot tac squad riding in the raven? If they aren’t, I’d give them the rhino before the plasma squad. If they are, I’d consider replacing them with a small scout squad, and just using them for a late game objective grab.

obsidiankatana: Those sound like good criticisms, thanks. The reason I want the SE is because I need to give him an invuln save, and I'll be going against tyranids a lot, so Deny The Witch and surviving MCs are a consideration.

Nevelon: I hadn't considered that. The digital weapons are because I want to do as much as I can to guarantee at least one wound in CC with the librarian for Force-kill. Using a scout squad in the raven is a good idea, and it'll save me a lot of points.

I'll take these into consideration and post an updated list in a bit. Thanks!

 spartanghost wrote:

Nevelon: I hadn't considered that. The digital weapons are because I want to do as much as I can to guarantee at least one wound in CC with the librarian for Force-kill. Using a scout squad in the raven is a good idea, and it'll save me a lot of points.

I'll take these into consideration and post an updated list in a bit. Thanks!

Full Disclosure: I’m a proponent of the “boys before toys” philosophy. Where rather then having a few, tricked out, units, you have more bare-bones ones. So I tend to be a bit more miserly then most in regard to wargear and upgrades. YMMV

And I fully agree that if you are going to spend the points, the digital weapons are a nice upgrade for the librarian. All they need to do is snake one wound in to ID something nasty. The problem is they are on the mediocre side of CC, so need all the help they can get. But at what cost? Could those points be better spent giving your sarges combi weapons? Or trim 10 here and 5 there, and suddenly you have a whole unit?

It’s one of those value calls where everyone does things a little bit differently. And the answer is going to change depending on who you are playing and what kind of mood your dice are in. One day, that giant bug is going to explode; another, you are going to desperately need one more melta shot, and not have it. And if you tweak you list for it, you know the next game is going to be the opposite.

Updated List

Using Ruakaan supplement

My current list:

Librarian - 140 points
- Terminator Armour
- Mastery 2
- Storm Shield
- Force TH thing

Master of the Forge - 90
- Servo Harness

Techmarine - 75
- Servo Harness

Scout Squad - 55

Tactical Squad -205
- 9 marines
- Rhino
- Missile Launcher
- Meltagun
- Meltabombs

Tactical Squad -200
- 9 marines
- Rhino
- Heavy Bolter
- Plasma Gun

Assault Terminators - 530
- 6x TH & SS
- Land Raider Crusader
-- Multi Melta

Stormtalon - 125
- Skyhammer

Stormtalon - 125
- Skyhammer

StormRaven - 205
- Extra armour

I could drop the extra armour on the raven, but I don't know what I'd buy with it.