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Made in us
Major




In a van down by the river

Hey all,

Recently took the plunge in picking up the basics of FoW, and I was pondering putting together a Mechanized German force. However, since I have little idea what's effective I thought before I started plunking down hundreds of dollars I should make sure I wasn't wasting the money on something that couldn't or shouldn't be fielded just out of ignorance. That said, the list I was pondering:

List: Heer Gepanzerte Panzergrenadierkompanie (Forces book)

HQ
Company HQ with AT section - 105 points

Combat Platoons
3xGepanzerte Platoons with 3 squads - 220 each for 660 points total

Weapons Platoons
AT platoon - 2x7.5cm PaK40 - 105 points
AA gun platoon - 3xSdKfz 10/5 - 90 points

Division Support
Panzer Platoon - 5xPanzer VI H - 450 points
Assault gun platoon - 3xStuG G - 285 points
Armored Artillery Battery - 3xHummel - 300 points

Total - 1995 (so I'll probably add a Panzerknacker to one of the platoons)

The AT platoon and assault guns are included simply because I have the models already, but is there something more effective to put in for the points? One thing that jumped to mind was drop the AT squad for another Hummel in the battery, but I don't know if that's cutting AT strength of the army too low. I realize every list has a weakness or two, but is there anything fundamentally screwed with that build or should it provide a reasonably entertaining game?

Complicating matters is the fact I've been unable to locate anything nearby with hardly any of that stuff in stock. Do you guys have any recommendations for US-based stores that typically have a good stock of models on hand or is it always a crap shoot? I've seen Atomic Empire bandied about online, as well as TheWarStore but am I overlooking someone? I just don't want to pay $300 for an army and then spend 3-5 months waiting for it to actually ship.

Thanks in advance for any suggestions!
   
Made in us
Lieutenant General





Florence, KY

2,000 points is an extremely large army for Flames of War. 1,500 points seems closer to average.

'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents
cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable
defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'

- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty
Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim
 
   
Made in us
Major




In a van down by the river

Thanks for the feedback! I can drop the assault guns and an infantry platoon from the list and sort that out pretty readily, which saves a bit of money on the initial order as well.
   
Made in gb
Highlord with a Blackstone Fortress






Adrift within the vortex of my imagination.

2000pts is fine, especially for German. You dont get to play with the toys for less.

At the very least aim for a 2k-3k collection, however Ghaz is correct that you will be most likely offered 1.5k games.

Your list:

HQ
Company HQ with AT section - 105 points

No problems, I add Panzerfaust to these teams after the others.

Combat Platoons
3xGepanzerte Platoons with 3 squads - 220 each for 660 points total

Always upgrade to the command team with an Sd Kfz 251/10 (3.7cm) and an AT weapon, preferably Panzerfaust. You need the versatility.

Weapons Platoons
AT platoon - 2x7.5cm PaK40 - 105 points
AA gun platoon - 3xSdKfz 10/5 - 90 points

No problems here. I try to find 20pts for a pair of 251's for the AT guns for theme is nothing else, the command team can ride with one AT gun.

Division Support
Panzer Platoon - 5xPanzer VI H - 450 points

I think you mean 5x Panzer IV, Panzer VI cos a whole lot more.
Personally I am not a fan of Panzer IV, much prefer the StuG but they are solid if you use them properly. i.e make best use of Stormtrooper.

Assault gun platoon - 3xStuG G - 285 points

Solid choice. However if you can buy Brummbar.

Armored Artillery Battery - 3xHummel - 300 points

You are paying a lot for this but its a workable number and quality. 2+ on bombardments is efficient. Avoid pairs of guns except for smoke laying. Still if you change you lists and get some Panzerwerfer you will get better results.

Total - 1995 (so I'll probably add a Panzerknacker to one of the platoons)


Ok. Some suggestions:

For fun try a Gepanzerte Heavy Platoon, it has a lot of cool toys. Drop some HMG teams if it costs too much. Other Gepanzerte Panzergrenadier lists allow you to drop the MG42's altogether. I like the teams but you don't need to pay for extra machine guns. the mortars however are really useful. The mortar track pairs are just enough to drop a smoke bombardment with no fuss. You will need this to cut the butchers bill on any assaults you have to make, and it can force enemy tanks to relocate to shoot.
The Sd Kfz 251/9 (7.5cm) are vulnerable but fun to add, if you buy PSC half tracks you can by an upgrsde box which contains these the 37s the mortars and the flamer variants. I couldn't resist building up a pair. They are supposedly good for backing an assault but in actuality they are just medium tanks with no armour. Still at 40pts you can afford them, and they can still Stormtrooper away if positioned well.

Next consider a Panzergrenadier platoon. I 'cheated' and put mine in a pair of Opel Blitz. Basic Panzergrenadiers offer a good points saving for more fresh meat. I only run two Gepanzerte Platoons, split them into three with a kampfgruppe and use truck mounted Panzergrenadiers to hold my own position. Remember that half the time you will be defending and you will need infantry stands more than half tracks, if you are attacking you may still need the manpower forward, but they can be trucked up as a second wave.
Also note that the army lists are crude in ths respect. The Panzergrenadiers didnt distinguish as they do in FoW lists, all Panzergrenadiers were intended to be Gepanzerte, but few in fact were due to resource shortages. In fact only Panzer Lehr was equipped with 100% armoured transportation, every other unit had to make do with a proportion of unarmoured Panzergrenadiers ad so did Lehr once attrition set in. So adding in Panzergrendiers in trucks adds flavour.

Brummbar are wonderful accompaniment for a Gepanzerte list, its all about moving relentlessly forward and applying horrible amounts of pressure. Brummbar do less well in defence, except an urban defence where they again excel. They are cheap for what you get because they have glaring weaknesses that an opponent can exploit if you are incautious with their deployment, being semi mobile at best, have a poor rate of fire and are short ranged. Conversely if you take that into account and spare the from being flanked or smoked you can make good use of heir decent armour and massive firepower.

n'oublie jamais - It appears I now have to highlight this again.

It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. By the juice of the brew my thoughts aquire speed, my mind becomes strained, the strain becomes a warning. It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut



Maryland

Always get Panzerfausts. W/o them you have no chance of stopping a tank assault. You should want at least two AT weapons per platoon. (1ic+PlatoonLeader and 2ic+PL)

You should always try to have a small mortar platoon for smoke templates to provide concealment to assaulting platoon. You don't want your 300pt Hummel platoon dropping smoke. The new 3+ firepower for 81mm mortars is great for digging out dug in teams and can pick off manpacked gun teams.

Be careful with the 3.7cm gun on the halftracks, it counts as a main-gun and with troops in the halftracks they count as tanks and can get gun-tanked. While you do have Mission tactics to save the PL, anyone in the track with him might get killed (1ic/2ic etc). If the opposing player is smart and you string out your platoon, he might even get to pick off teams near the PL and leave you no one to take over within command distance.

1500, 1650 and 1750-1780 points levels are played more then 2000pts. If you end up with about 2500pts of stuff, then you can pick and choose units and play different lists.


   
Made in us
Major




In a van down by the river

Thanks for the suggestions guys! As far as collecting goes I'm sure over time I'll end up with a ridiculous points count assuming I stick with it. I just was aiming small for the initial go-round for both sanity and finances.

So, with a bit of re-working as a 1500 point list:

HQ with AT section - 105
2xGepanzerte platoons with 3 squads + Panzerfaust - 460
Gepanzerte Heavy (2xHMG + 2x8cm) - 175
AT Platoon 2x7.5cm + 2 transports - 125
AA Platoon 2xSdkfz 10/5 - 60 points
Panzer IV Hx3 - 270 points
Hummelx3 - 300 points

Would I be better served dropping down to 2 Hummels at this points range and using the points to upgrade the Command teams to Panzerfausts and adding another 7.5 PaK 40 and 2 transports (or something else with the 90 points)?

Also, is there a good supplier of vanilla Sdkfz 251/1 models that are close dimension-wise to what Battlefront makes? I know the look and all will match across various manufacturers, but my nerd OCD will kick in if one set is notiecably longer/taller. Or have I just missed the obvious option for ordering them from BF? I know there are new sets for that out and still coming (for the HQ), but are half-tracks to be sold separately at some point?

Finally, given what I'm obviously going for with "lots of half-tracks", are there other books with lists that might be more interesting than the default Forces one? I notice the armored artillery battery in the store, but I assume the rules for them are from a different sourcebook.
   
Made in gb
Highlord with a Blackstone Fortress






Adrift within the vortex of my imagination.

AndrasOtto wrote:
Always get Panzerfausts. W/o them you have no chance of stopping a tank assault. You should want at least two AT weapons per platoon. (1ic+PlatoonLeader and 2ic+PL)


Agreed. It ok to add a Panzerknacker for theme, but most eligible teams should have Panzerfaust, they were common enough to hand out to women and kids in RL so....

You can save points and make your C/O more distinct by not adding a Panzerfaust to his team. It's not cool to get your C/O within 4" of enemy tanks if you can delegate.


AndrasOtto wrote:

Be careful with the 3.7cm gun on the halftracks, it counts as a main-gun and with troops in the halftracks they count as tanks and can get gun-tanked. While you do have Mission tactics to save the PL, anyone in the track with him might get killed (1ic/2ic etc). If the opposing player is smart and you string out your platoon, he might even get to pick off teams near the PL and leave you no one to take over within command distance.


Ahh the oddities of the rules, adding in the 3.7cm changes the vehicle type ....

I like the 3.7cm, it adds to the toolbox nature of the unit. Also the 3.7cm normally has just the platoon leader in it, if worried you can run it empty and reallocate the command team and still not break the transport cap.
All is not lost though, with two Gepanzerte platoons you most likely will have the company command and 2iC with them anyway.

Being honest though my main reason for taking them is rule of cool. The Sd Kfz 251 was known for its many modifications, Panzergrenadier Leutnant needs his ride extra pimped, jah!

n'oublie jamais - It appears I now have to highlight this again.

It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. By the juice of the brew my thoughts aquire speed, my mind becomes strained, the strain becomes a warning. It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut



Maryland

PSC 251s are great.
If you're taking Hummels, get three. Never take just 3 PzIVs. StuG you can get away with 3 of them, not PzIVs.

There's some free pdf lists on the BF website. These lists are also free on EasyArmy.com
http://www.flamesofwar.com/Default.aspx?tabid=108

Panzers to the Meuse is a great list, but it doesn't allow GPGs to take Pak40s. (TruckPGs can).
http://www.flamesofwar.com/Portals/0/Documents/Briefings/2-and-Lehr-Panzerdivison.pdf


Here's 1500 list off PttM
Gepanzerte Panzergrenadierkompanie HQ (2 SMG/Pzfts)
Gepanzerte Panzergrenadier Platoon, full (7MG/Pzfts)
Gepanzerte Panzergrenadier Platoon, full (7MG/Pzfts)
Gepanzerte Heavy Platoon w 2 251/2(8cm) and command team w 251/1
PanzerPlt w 4 PzIVJ
Armored Heavy Artillery w 3 Hummels and a PzIV Obs tank
SPAA w 2 10/5
1500/6plts

 Orlanth wrote:
Also the 3.7cm normally has just the platoon leader in it, if worried you can run it empty and reallocate the command team and still not break the transport cap.
All is not lost though, with two Gepanzerte platoons you most likely will have the company command and 2iC with them anyway.


You can't do that. You must have teams as evenly distributed as possible, and they have to ride in their own section's transport if available. The PL must ride in his own track, and can't triple up in another track if his is empty. If you have any extra teams w/o their own transport in the platoon they have to ride with the PL (at least the first one does) because he is the only team in his transport.

I did forget that the 1iC and 2iC usually have their own transports in GPGs, but if you have motoPGs and the 1ic is hitching along with a GPG Plt it might come up.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/04/28 16:15:27


 
   
Made in gb
Highlord with a Blackstone Fortress






Adrift within the vortex of my imagination.

I stand corrected on the transport rules, while not perfect they are a fair and logical abstraction.

n'oublie jamais - It appears I now have to highlight this again.

It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. By the juice of the brew my thoughts aquire speed, my mind becomes strained, the strain becomes a warning. It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. 
   
 
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