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Hello All,

I recently acquired the latest Space Marine codex and am trying to put together a casual, but somewhat competitive, list. I probably won't take the army to big tournaments but it would be nice to win a few games from time to time. The basic idea is to create a sort of Alpha Strike with a Follow On force. Critiques from more experienced players are more than welcome. So far I have the following:

HQ
Chapter Master - articifer armor, thunder hammer, storm shield: 195
Chaplain - power fist, meltabombs: 120
Honor Guard (x8) - Champion w/thunder hammer, Chapter Banner, drop pod: 285

Everybody rides together in the drop pod

TROOPS
2x Tactical Squads - heavy bolter, grav gun, SGT w/meltaboms, drop pod each: 410
Scout Squad (x7) - camo cloaks, sniper rifles: 98

The Scouts can infiltrate or hold a home objective while the Tac Squads drop onto other objectives

ELITES
2x Ironclad Dreadnoughts - seismic hammer/meltagun, power fist/heavy flamer, drop pod each: 360

These drop with the HQ unit to support or hunt enemy heavy armor

FAST ATTACK
2x Stormtalons - TL assault cannons, TL lascannons each: 280

These support the Tac Squads by sniping enemy transports and strafing infantry

TOTAL: 1748

The tactics seem fairly straight forward and potentially effective. My HQ element and Dreadnoughts drop on the first turn, while the rest of the force back fills to take objectives in the subsequent turns. With the exception of the Scouts, each element has some form of AT capability and the list itself seems to have some decent shooting. Horde armies may be a bit of a problem as the list is a little short on actual warm bodies. Would it be worthwhile to consider Skyhammer missiles on the Stormtalons instead of the lascannons? With the points I could equip some of my drop pods with either locator beacons or deathwind launchers; any thoughts or experience with either of those options?

Lastly, I haven't settled on my Chapter Tactics yet, or even what Chapter this list may represent. At first glance it seems that Ultramarine tactics may prove the most useful since I'll need certain portions of the list to excel at certain things. Any ideas on that?

You need more troops. Get rid of the honor guard and get another tac squad pod.

Also you will want to run the shield eternal instead of a storm shield so your CM has IWND.

Lose the chaplain because at 1750 you dont really need two hq's and itll save you 100 points.

Go with skyhammers on the talons or consider getting rid of them and getting a pair of stalkers for 110 points cheaper.

Deathwind launchers are pretty unreliable with their lack of ap and theres no real reason for locator beacons since they have inertial guidance so if you position them right they shouldnt move much on the scatter anyway.

Finally look into a unit of sternguard, their awesome in DP's

Regarding the troops - I disagree. You have 3 with the potential for 5 scoring units. That's plenty. What I would do is get rid of the heavy bolters and grav. HB's don't work well with drop lists or tacs on the move (snap firing heavy 3 doesn't go as well as firing a bolter at full BS) and the grav guns are best suited for relentless units (bikes for example) so they can make full use of moving and shooting their full shots. Go with either a Plasmagun or Meltagun (no heavy) fo rdrop lists.

DW Launchers - Agreed, they lack bang for their buck.

Locator beacons - Worthless, but not for the reasons stated above. They only help if they're already on the table, and the pods are pretty close to accurate as you need anyway (just make sure you're not going to scatter off the table and you're safe).

Chaplain - I don't care for them personally .. not in a drop list like this for sure. They lack luster for their cost in my experience (though some people swear by them for a close combat squad support).

Take skyhammer over lascannons every time, for sure.

Honour Guard - Love using them myself - they make a CM beatstick even deadlier

Chapter Master - Consider Shield Eternal or Calgar (if you choose ultramarines).

Ultramarines are probably your best choice at first thought.
You might want to consider swapping your HQ's for Calgar and Tigurius if that's the case.

I would agree with most of the feedback above, particularly the Stormtalon with skyhammers, Sternguard with combis, and Calgar. It looks like you are close to a null deploy list (nothing on the table to start) so I'd commit to it wholly. Calgar coming down turn 1 with Sternguard pods and tac squads are nice. I would consider a full 10 man Sternguard squad with all bolters to really put out some wounds. Tactical squads are nice with a plasma and matching combi because your chances of getting hot are lower thanks to the doctrines.

I also think that a drop pod list supported by a Stormraven escorted by a stormtalon is very fun and can be really effective!

Trading the lascannons for skyhammer missiles, plus stripping the heavy bolters from the Tac Squads, gave enough points for the Shield Eternal no sweat. The Tac Squads will take melta guns instead of grav guns.

As far as HQ choices, I've got some questions/options. I can see the benefits of upgrading the Chapter Master to carry the Shield Eternal...but why is everyone poo-pooing Chaplains? Seems like they're a pretty good close combat choice.

Would it be better to take a Librarian instead? I can field a pretty bare-bones one -- LVL 1, force weapon and storm shield -- and use the left over points to upgrade my CM to Calgar. Does that sound better overall than a CM and Chaplain?

Or I can settle on Calgar as my only HQ choice. Then cut the Honor Guard to seven guys and trade my Scout Squad for two 5-man Scout Squads with bolters and camo cloaks riding in two Land Speeder Storms. My points would come to 1745, so it works out pretty nicely.

Thoughts?

The biggest problem with the chaplain in a larger points game is that he has only 2 wounds. As the points limit gets higher, bigger baddies are gonna be fielded and it's hard to justify having a weaker HQ that may get called out by a stronger one. I think in certain cases Chaplains can be great. Remember that the Chaplain, Libby, and Tiggy all unlock the command squad which can put out some serious firepower.. 8-10 plasma shots on the drop re rolling gets hot? Yes please!

Here are some reasons why I think Calgar is so good:

1) Take the armor of Antilochus and put him in a tac squad on the drop and you get a twin linked orbital bombardment the turn he comes in

2) All your tac marines get the old combat tactics and can choose to break, so give them melta bombs and combat squad for the most optimal use of grenades and bombs as you get tied up, break, charge in, etc.

3) he can reuse a doctrine.. He's awesome. If you second wave of Tacticals comes in, they are more efficient too.

4) Eternal Warrior is priceless, and although he only has a 4+ invuln, he can carry his weight in a fight. Also, if you can get him into a command squad with an apothecary (maybe by taking a Libby or Chaplain or Tigurius as a second HQ?) he'll do some work.

It seem that I probably need more Troops, so I can work things around to include a third Tactical Squad and probably Calgar as well. If Calgar comes in with a Tac Squad, then he presumably is no longer part of the initial drop pod strike force. Should I stick with the Honor Guard, or consider a unit of Vanguard Veterans instead? I'm also assuming the Tac Squad Calgar is with can't be more than 8 models due to the armor of Antilochus, true?

I love the full alpha strike lists. I ran my first full out strike list a couple of weekends ago and it was by far the most fun I've had with my marines. I ran IF chapter tactics with this list but I'm sure there's arguments for other tactics. The list came out to right at 2000 points.

Bike captain went in with the bikes of course and the termies were grouped together. Scouts infiltrated with homer and stayed out of LOS until the termies arrived. My reserve rolls were very good and all units were on the board by round 3. Many small units are your friends so combat squad tacs, scouts, sterns, etc.

Captain on bike with shield
Terminator captain with hammer and shield
Command squad with 5 meltas and pod
10 man tac squad with plasma/missile launcher in pod
5 man scout squad with bolters in speeder storm
5 man scout squad with bolters, camo, and teleport homer
5 man bike squad with 2 plasmas and mm attack bike
5 man legion of the damned with melta/mm
5 man termie squad with th/ss
2 storm talons with sky hammers
2 speeder squad with typhoons
Storm raven with assault cannon and heavy bolter

I've used chaplains with some hit or miss success. The best I could ever use em was in an assault squad as they need to get the assault launched to really make use of the chappy. If they got assaulted, it usually wasn't too good for em. Play test your chaplain and see how you like em.