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I am currently in a progressive league and our point value rises to 750 next week. I am working on building a Dark Angels list and have limited models. This is what I came up with.

(190) HQ - 1 Belial - Terminator Armor, Iron Halo, Teleport Homer, Sword of Silence, Storm Bolter
(220) Troop 1 - Deathwing Terminator Squad, Deathwing Terminator (4) Power First and Storm Bolter, Sergeant: Power Weapon. Storm Bolter (Belial will accompany this troop)
(235) Troop 2 - Deathwing Terminator Squad, Deathwing Terminator (2) Power First,and Storm Bolter, Plasma Cannon, Sergeant: Power Weapon. Storm Bolter
(105) Fast Attack 1 - Ravenwing Attack Squadron, Ravenwing Biker (2) FgGren, KrGren, Twin Linked Bolter, Bolt Pistol, Plasma Gun. Ravenwing Sergeant: FgGren, KrGren, Bolt Pistol, Chainsword, Veteran.

500 on the dot. Like I said this is coming from a new player so let me know if you notice any holes.

I'm going to do the same thing I do every time I see a Belial list - take a Heavy Flamer in the squad Belial is accompanying. You've got a whopping 14 models, and need a way to deal with hordes. A non-scattering twin-linked Heavy Flamer can potentially annihilate an entire unit (depending on multi-level ruins or large spread-out units), much more dangerous than a storm bolter.

To get the points needed, drop the Veteran upgrade on the Ravenwing Sarge - without a power weapon, it's really not worth it. And the RW should be avoiding combat in this list, let the DW do the heavy lifting.

Remember that IC's count separately for working out the 51% of units you can place in reserves, so one of the DW units will need to start on the table.

I agree with a HF in Belials squad. One thing that must be said is that TH/SS terminators are far better than shooty ones.

I normally run Belials squad as 4XTH/SS, 1 X HF/CF.
(This depends if your group lets the DW sergeant swap his weapon).

So you believe having a melee squad for the HQ accompanied team is better? I could try that out as I havent bought the minis yet for one of the squads of terminators (our league requires whatever you are using to be on the mini)


So How about this?

(190) HQ - 1 Belial - Terminator Armor, Iron Halo, Teleport Homer, Sword of Silence, Storm Bolter
(250) Troop 1 - Deathwing Terminator Squad, Deathwing Terminator (4) TH/SS Heavy Flamer, Sergeant: Power Weapon. Storm Bolter (Belial will accompany this troop)
(230) Troop 2 - Deathwing Terminator Squad, Deathwing Terminator (4) Power First,and Storm Bolter, Heavy Flamer, Sergeant: Power Weapon. Storm Bolter
(80) Fast Attack 1 - Ravenwing Attack Squadron, Ravenwing Biker (2) FgGren, KrGren, Twin Linked Bolter, Bolt Pistol, Ravenwing Sergeant: FgGren, KrGren, Bolt Pistol, Chainsword

To pull this off I need to buy a set of Ravenwings because one of mine has a Plasma as a weapon.
Ill have to buy as set of terminators and set them up with shields/hammers.
I may have to buy a second set of terminators to get one with a flamer
And I will have to buy a Belial

That might be a bit more than what I want to spend at the moment. Might have to leave one of the TH/SS guys as a bolter to save me from buying a second set of terminators.

But provided that money isnt an issue is this list more likely to perform better?

You are playing a DW army, it will never perform well with the current DA codex. It is bottom tier.

Ravenwing bikes are not so good unless you can take them as troops. To this end, if you are planning on making a dual-wing army in the future, then Azrael would be the go to HQ choice.
If you don't want to do this, then I'd use the points elsewhere. If you like bikes, but don't have them as troops, then use Black knights.

If you are using one squad of terminators to shoot, them a CML is the preferable weapon. Or possible an assault cannon. I'd only give melee terminators a HF.

Btw, when listing your army, keep it simple. Your list would be much easier to understand like this:

Belial

Terminators x5 - 4xTH/SS, 1xHF
Terminators x5 - 1xHF

RAS x3

See how much easier this is for people to look at and help you.

No problem, still new to the game/forum so the abbreviations aren't all there yet for me.

So would you say I was better off cutting the bikes all together and just going with a tac team for the leftover points?

Most likely. Space marine bikes are best taken as troops choices, if you can't do this then the points might be better spent elsewhere. (Obviously black knights are not included here, they are one of DAs best units).

If you are new to the game, then DW might not be the best army to start with. Whilst I am not tying to put you off them, you will find that they are outclassed by almost all other forces, making any game you play an uphill struggle.

They can still win games, and when they do it is a good feeling, however most competitive armies will table you will relatively little difficulty.

That is a shame, unfortunately Dark Angels are the units I have to work with. I was told that almost all the factions were competitive so I picked up a Dark Vengeance starter and some additional units to round out the squad. It will be some time before I have the cash to drop on a new squad so I have to make the best of what I have.

When you say DW squads are subpar, are you stating that the Terminator squads are bad or Dark Angels as a whole. I have not invested too much into the terminators yet and would like to avoid doing so if you think that it is not the best way to go with a DA troop.

As a fellow DA player, I hate to say that the analysis of the Dex is right. We just can't compete with the sheer power of other Dexes right now.

That being said, I too am a fan of Terminators. Been playing Deathwing since 2008; back when Storm Shields were a 4++ in close combat only.

What's your meta like?

Don't feel bad about your purchase. The DV box has a lot of stuff in it.
If you are making a list with the DV set then it is pretty easy:

Azrael (The capatain in the box has the exact same loadout as Azrael, so you already have the model).

Tac squad w/ Plasmagun & Plasmacannon
Termiantors 1x assault cannon, 1x Chainfist
Bike squad 1xplasmagun

725 points total.

This gives you 3/4 scoring units (Depending on if you split the tac squad), and includes all the models you already have.
The remaining 25 points can get another weapon for the bikes, and some items for a sergeant.

Remember if you like the DA models/ can find them cheaply, then you can always play them and use codex Space Marines instead of codex DA, they are still space marines after all.
C:SM is more competitive and has more options than DA.

As for as DA is concerned, they are not bad per say, just boring and lacking in competitive options compared to other books.
Terminators on the other hand are just bad at the moment. I still play DW, because I like the models and i is a challenge, but I wouldn't recommend them to a newer player.

I honestly have no ideal. I played one game to learn how to play last week in a 500 point game. I did well with a company master, 2 squads of tac a ravening squad and a predator (team made because that is all I had.). The guy I was playing against was playing a race that they said was the true humans? Seemed like they had a lot of cheap units that were more squishy. I overheard a couple people saying they play space marines.

I really don't know the meta, I am playing my first league match tonight after work (totally stoked).

My 500 point team for tonight consists of (also due to lack of models, I intend to buy more tonight but looking for some direction as to what to spend on).

(115) - HQ - Company Master w/ PW/Combi-Plasma
(110) - Troop 1 - Tac Squad w/ Plasma Gun. Sergeant w/ Plasma Pistol, Veteran
(85) - Troop 2 - Tac Squad w/ Plasma Cannon. Sergeant with Bolter/Bolt Pistol
(105) - Fast Attack 1 - Ravenwing Attack Squadron, Plasma Gun. Sergeant Bolter/Chainsword, Veteran
(85) - Heavy - Predator w/ HK Missile

Many of the weapon choices are due to the fact that, this is what the weapons provided were on the models. Our league requires the models to have the weapons selected equipped on the model.

Some other thing to note:

The librarian is the best non-named HQ choice for DA. If you aren't using your captain as Azrael, then I'd use your librarian insead, divination is the best table for you to roll on.

The Power Field Generator is perhaps the best piece of wargear in the book.

The veteran sergeants aren't all that needed. Especially in such a small points game. More models and guns would be a better use of your points.

Plasma pistols are bad. Don't take them. I swapped my DV sergeants pistol for a bolter.

A predator doesn't have much firepower without sponsons. Your list lacks anti tank, so giving it lascannon sponsons would be a good idea. Alternatively give it heavy bolters, and turn it into an anti infantry machine.

Edit: This site will give you some more ideas on how to play DA, http://1d4chan.org/wiki/Warhammer_40,000/6th_Edition_Tactics/Dark_Angels

Considering my models, how does this list look.

(95) - HQ - Librarian W/PFG
(85) - Troop 1 - Tac Squad w/ Plasma Gun. Sergeant w/Bolter/Chainsword
(85) - Troop 2 - Tac Squad w/ Plasma Cannon. Sergeant with Bolter/Bolt Pistol
(95) - Fast Attack 1 - Ravenwing Attack Squadron, Plasma Gun. Sergeant Bolter/Chainsword
(140) - Heavy - Predator w/Lascannon/Storm Bolter

Still 500 points.

And thanks for all the help, just trying to make the most of my models for tonight.

I do intend on purchasing more models (not too many)
I have a box for another 5 man tac squad already purchased.

Knowing that our point value raises to 750 next week and then I think 1000 a couple weeks after, is there anything specific that I should look into picking up?

Also, I am new to the game, what makes the Librarian so good? Just that he is cheap points?

RJCarrot wrote:
Considering my models, how does this list look.

(95) - HQ - Librarian W/PFG
(85) - Troop 1 - Tac Squad w/ Plasma Gun. Sergeant w/Bolter/Chainsword
(85) - Troop 2 - Tac Squad w/ Plasma Cannon. Sergeant with Bolter/Bolt Pistol
(95) - Fast Attack 1 - Ravenwing Attack Squadron, Plasma Gun. Sergeant Bolter/Chainsword
(140) - Heavy - Predator w/Lascannon/Storm Bolter

Still 500 points.

And thanks for all the help, just trying to make the most of my models for tonight.

I do intend on purchasing more models (not too many)
I have a box for another 5 man tac squad already purchased.

Knowing that our point value raises to 750 next week and then I think 1000 a couple weeks after, is there anything specific that I should look into picking up?

Also, I am new to the game, what makes the Librarian so good? Just that he is cheap points?

For 750 points, just introduce your terminators, possibly change the librarian to Azrael to make your bikes and terminators scoring. This way you can get a feel for what and how you like to play before you buy anymore.

Librarian is good because he is cheap, has a free power weapon and psychic defense, but also because he acts as a force multiplier. One advantage DA librarians have of SM ones is that they can choose from divination. (Which is arguably the best psychic skill list). He is also a cheap way to get a pfg. Use this to protect your units/tank from heavy fire.

I make your list to be 475 points btw, you are over pricing your predator. If you give it spnson and TL lascannons, then it will be 140 points.

I have preditor base 75, Las cannon sponsons +60 and +5 storm bolter making it 140. Is that incorrect?

Don't bring deathwing until you have about 1250 points to spend. They won't get the love and attention they need until then.

The da codex as it stands is a helluva lot better than it used to be whiners about it can die in a fire, please n thx u.

I think that trying to be cheap with da is possible but it needs to be done properly. Invest in ravenwing bike teams from eBay and additional tactical marines. At some point your going to want some scouts and a troop transport of some kind. So a drop pod or rhino is going to become a must. Grabbing anything else should be considered a plus.

I just scored a sick deal on eBay, tomorrow arriving at my door is some veterans, some scouts and a nephilim. I'm paying 80 bucks for all that. Of those I'll probably only use the scouts, but it's nice to have those options on the table that I got for the priced of a set of 7 paint pots

EBay is your friend, use it wisely.

I'd also buy into a chaplain or two at some point. People are dumping their captain's and chaplains left n right from all marine armies because they aren't "spammy" enough for the window licking above average player who can't see the forest of possibility through the tree's.

In fact you can pick up a new dark vengeance limited edition chaplain for all of 15 bucks if you look around, which is nice.

The da codex as it stands is a helluva lot better than it used to be whiners about it can die in a fire, please n thx u.

How good a codex is compared to its previous editions, is not as good a method determining its value as comparing it to codices of the same edition.
As it stands DA is one of, if not the weakest codex of 6th edition. Almost anything it does, SM can do it better, and cheaper.

I'd also buy into a chaplain or two at some point. People are dumping their captain's and chaplains left n right from all marine armies because they aren't "spammy" enough for the window licking above average player who can't see the forest of possibility through the tree's.

Chaplains are for non serious games only I'm afraid. They are expensive for what they do, and what they do can be easily replicated by a librarian, at a cheaper cost and with more utility. I have Chaplains both on a bike, and in terminator armour, armed with the mace of absolution. Cool models, but overall not really practical.

SM captains are still as good as ever due to unlocking bikes. DA captains on the other hand are a bad joke, and are the worst HQ choice available. They provide no force multipliers, do nothing that a chaplain or a librarian cannot do, and when kitted out are more expensive to boot. I'm not saying you should stop using them, but they are not competitive.

Invest in ravenwing bike teams from eBay and additional tactical marines. At some point your going to want some scouts and a troop transport of some kind. So a drop pod or rhino is going to become a must. Grabbing anything else should be considered a plus.

To the OP: If you are going to build on your DA army in the future, I would first play a few games, and choose which aspect you want to focus on. I personally I have 2k+ armies for DW and RW, however I have only the DV models for a standard DA army, as I'm not interested in them. Point being, don't just buy Bikes and tac squads, it would be a wiser choice to wait and see what kind of army you want to build before throwing your money around. If you want to make the strongest list possible with DA, then your army should be built around bikes.

I have preditor base 75, Las cannon sponsons +60 and +5 storm bolter making it 140. Is that incorrect?

Lascannon sponsons are cheaper than what you have posted, lascannon sponsons and TL lascannon turret are 5 points more expensive overall. If you remove the storm bolter then the price will be right.

My first army was DA. I'm repainting them now after 14 years.

Dark Angels also have access to the Banner of Devastation(salvo for bolters if you're within 6" of it). Combined with the libby's power for re rolls, it can be very useful.

As for future point/purchases, look into transports. In some missions you will have to get an objective or two. Walking there by foot will be slow going for you.


Since you're just starting out playing, here is a few words of advice.

1. Play for the mission. Don't get distracted from this. I have won games with two guys left on the board because my opponent lost track of the mission and I got it done.

2. Spend quality time with your rule book. People will say that they know the rule but might be wrong if you look it up in the book. If there is a question of a ruling, look it up together and figure out who is right.

3. Have fun. After all it's a silly little game with toy soldiers.

Good luck.