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I have been looking at Dropzone Commander and looks good, but I have to ask how is the balance of the game. It looks like a lot fun with some really cool looking models, but I would like to know more about the game before I jump in.

I wrote up an introduction to Dropzone commander on my blog, which should help out.

http://compel-gaming.blogspot.co.uk/2014/02/a-brief-intro-to-my-dropzone-commander.html

Game balance by most accounts, is pretty darn good. They brought on a former major 40k tournament player as part of the team (Simon), who has been keeping a particular eye out on game balance. They also release rules for new units as PDF's before they go into a book (which isn't quite out yet), so continue to tweak them in response to public playtesting.

Thanks

Even if somthing is in a book they are not afraid to fix it if it needs it there are a few things that had small tweak s between 1 and 1.1 rulebooks

For general playstyle, I've heard people call it Air Cavalry In Space for the way it plays. So the name is very fitting, a lot of stuff gets moved around or centers around dropships getting units where they're needed.

Otherwise, the game also centers around buildings that you have to send infantry into to grab objectives.

Sounds cool really nice change of pace in a game.

Bluetablepainting just did a video battle report which I found pretty interesting, in their rambling way. I mean it sort of assumes you know most of the rules, but at least it gives you an idea of how the game plays:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WXedL_yIIlc

I love DZC. Its rapidly become my favorite game.

The game is generally very fluid. Turns go back and forth, it always seems like you have to make hard decisions about what to move or not. Killing your opponent isn't necessarily your biggest priority - getting objectives and positioning usually is. Nearly every piece is useful, but its almost impossible to spam units because you really need a balance of units in your army: infantry to acquire objectives, dropships (or gates) to position/reposition your units, anti-air to counter drop-ships, anti-tank to protect anti-air. Its well balanced, the rules are (mostly) sensible and understandable, and Hawk pays attention to their boards and users and answer questions and issue clarifications.

Also, the models are a blast to paint. I have both a UCM and Shaltari force, and they play WAY differently, and they're equally fun (although drastically different) to paint.

Once you learn the rules and how to activate properly this game is very fast and has SOLID rules to boot .

You can afford to buy the main starter and find out for yourself. Allowing for how much you get in the box it is a very good deal and even if you take the game no further you can have fun with what you get.

I do believe however that after seeing this gem of a game you will be wanting more.

DZC is expensive and so that might not be good news for your wallet.

If you really want a new game but cant afford one right now, stay away from DZC, be warned.
Otherwise I recommend it.

Per points it's cheaper than 40k, per Oz of plastic - probably not.

Yeah, compared to getting into a lot of games, DZC at typical point values (1000-1500) isn't too bad from a cost perspective - especially if you play UCM or Scourge and go in on the 2 Player Starter Set (or two). That said, if you get into it and want to be a completionist or if you want multiple armies at 2K+ it starts adding up.

I easily spent twice as much trying to put together 2k force for 40k. On the other hand, I also only spent maybe half as much putting together 2 different 6 point forces for SAGA.

It's not expensive in relative terms (compared to PP or 40k) but in absolute terms. It's just not a lot of resin for the price, IMO.

I demo'd the game at Origins, and the game is rock solid. I liked it a lot, but it's just too much for an epic scale game for my blood.

I dont' want to dissuade anybody, but it's not a game I'd be an early adopter on. If people around you play, than jump in.

 Polonius wrote:
It's not expensive in relative terms (compared to PP or 40k) but in absolute terms. It's just not a lot of resin for the price, IMO.

I can't argue with that. The per-piece cost is definitely on the higher end. Not as high as, say, Forgeworld or Scibor, but higher than many. The quality of most of the pieces is pretty sharp, though. And the resin is pretty durable and flexible - haven't had anything snap, and only a few models have had any significant (or even minor) casting issues.

 SavageRobby wrote:

 Polonius wrote:
It's not expensive in relative terms (compared to PP or 40k) but in absolute terms. It's just not a lot of resin for the price, IMO.

I can't argue with that. The per-piece cost is definitely on the higher end. Not as high as, say, Forgeworld or Scibor, but higher than many. The quality of most of the pieces is pretty sharp, though. And the resin is pretty durable and flexible - haven't had anything snap, and only a few models have had any significant (or even minor) casting issues.

Honestly? I think their prices are comparable with forgeworld.

Look at this heavy drone fighter:

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhammer-40000/Tau/TAU-BATTLESUITS-AND-DRONES/TAU-REMORA-DRONE-STEALTH-FIGHTERS.html

And this heavy drop ship:

http://www.hawkwargames.com/products/poseidon-heavy-dropship

I'm a pretty price immune gamer, and when I held the little figures in my hand and heard the price... it was hard to swallow.

 Polonius wrote:

 SavageRobby wrote:

 Polonius wrote:
It's not expensive in relative terms (compared to PP or 40k) but in absolute terms. It's just not a lot of resin for the price, IMO.

I can't argue with that. The per-piece cost is definitely on the higher end. Not as high as, say, Forgeworld or Scibor, but higher than many. The quality of most of the pieces is pretty sharp, though. And the resin is pretty durable and flexible - haven't had anything snap, and only a few models have had any significant (or even minor) casting issues.

Honestly? I think their prices are comparable with forgeworld.

Look at this heavy drone fighter:

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhammer-40000/Tau/TAU-BATTLESUITS-AND-DRONES/TAU-REMORA-DRONE-STEALTH-FIGHTERS.html

And this heavy drop ship:

http://www.hawkwargames.com/products/poseidon-heavy-dropship

I'm a pretty price immune gamer, and when I held the little figures in my hand and heard the price... it was hard to swallow.

FW seems better value in this comparison; the Poseidon is, I believe slightly smaller than a Remora and the latter also comes as a pack of 2.

Also I play a fair bit of DzC with a buddy of mine (my Shaltari vs his UCM) and it's rapidly becoming our new favourite system after we divorced GW.

So I want to answer this thread with some detail. Please don't think that I'm putting down 40K. Play it if you can afford it and if you enjoy it. But I do want to compare it to DZC in case anyone is thinking of jumping into Drop Zone Commander.

I bought into Drop Zone Commander game a few months ago and so far I've had seven battles with it while I paint a Post Human Republic force. What a great game! Every game has been very interesting tactically.

I really enjoy the science fiction background to it and the factions are all unique. They play differently too. They play on the table top the way you would expect them to. Play balance seems really good too.

As to price, well, let's do a little comparison shall we? I won't compare with Forge World resin, but I'll just take a comparison with Warhammer 40K from the GW webstore.

Here is the Post Human Republic Large Army from Hawk Wargames.
http://www.hawkwargames.com/products/phr-large-army
I just added it up and this makes 1467 points for your typical game at 1500 points. 1500 points is plenty in this game. A game of 1000 points is a lot of fun and just as tactically interesting to play.

Cost: 140 GBP = $238 USD = $253 AUD

Checking a local Australian retailer: I can buy it slightly less than what Hawk Wargames sell it for online.

Now, let's take Warhammer 40,000 made by Games Workshop. I'll make a quick example Dark Angels Space Marine force; a smaller, elite army that needs fewer models than a horde army. Characters have some wargear to buff their points costs.
Sammael, Deathwing terminator squad, 2 full Tactical squads with special and heavy weapons and veteran sergeants in Rhino APCs, Aegis line with Quad Gun, full Ravenwing Attack Squad, Land Speeder with HB and AC, Attack bike with MM, Vindicator, Whirlwind. The list I quickly knocked up comes to 1496 points.

DA Battleforce (Ravenwing, Attack Bike, Land Speeder) = 70GBP = 110 USD = 185 AUD
Deathwing Terminator Squad = 35 GBP = 60 USD = 75 AUD
Sammael = 30 GBP = 49.50 USD = 83 AUD
10 man SM Tactical Squad = 25 GBP = 40 USD = 65 AUD
10 man SM Tactical Squad = 25 GBP = 40 USD = 65 AUD
Rhino = 22.50 GBP = 37.25 USD = 55 AUD
Rhino = 22.50 GBP = 37.25 USD = 55 AUD
Whirlwind = 35 GBP = 57.75 USD = 83 AUD
Vindicator = 35 GBP = 57.75 USD = 83 AUD
Aegis Defence Line = 18 GBP = 29.75 USD = 41 AUD

TOTALS = 318 GBP; 519.25 USD; 790 AUD

Two game systems, two prices, a starting army of 1500 points (no shipping included below).
GBP 140 vs 318
USD $238 vs $519.25
AUD $253 vs $790

Size of Models and Comparing Product Lines The 40K vehicles are much bigger. Most of the 40K stuff is plastic. GW generally make awesome looking heroic scale 32mm models; nicely detailed. Moulding is high standard IMHO.

The DZC stuff is very nice resin (easy to work with and very durable). DZC is 10mm scale but the walkers and dropships are about the size of an infantry model in 40K. Their biggest walker could be similar to a Land Speeder I suppose. The DZC are very detailed, almost too much for 10mm scale. The lines and details are very crisp. I think they look fantastic for what they represent when you read the game background. The Scourge and Shaltari are truly unique in background, gameplay and design aesthetic. I judge their moulding standard to be OK. It's mostly very crisp, but a number of models I've bought have small moulding mistakes, holes, blobs, etc. Sorry Hawk, that's just honest feedback. It's fixable with a bit of modelling attention.

It's less product by weight for DZC I suspect and smaller models, but if you look at what you need to play a standard game on a 6' by 4' table, DZC is very satisfying and there is no comparison in terms of value for money. DZC wins hands down. A great game, for a great price.

Game Balance and Winning Through Tactics Not List Design
Starting from second edition, 40K was never well balanced. E.g. Marine bikes in 2nd ed would cost the same as Eldar jet bikes. The Eldar bikes had maybe up to a dozen advantages over the marine ones. GW designers have simply sprung from that baseline. As a company, they've never had to think about strong, solid gameplay balance. In fact, it probably helps their profitability a lot to not have it. Each rehash of their rules means the competitive players rush out to buy the next flavour of the month. And you have senior designers like Jervis, who bless his heart, is a fun relaxed player and not a competitive gamer.

This was always a down side for me. I'm a slow painter and collector so I want a well balanced ruleset that lets the models I've slowly prepared be viable.

So often the 40K game can be won in list design. You can't tell me that a strong Guard list with two Vendettas under 6th, two plasma russes, battle psykers, oodles of infantry, fortifications, etc won't have a very high chance of trashing that simple Dark Angel list I made, can you? It's pretty clear to me that some list designs and army books have much stronger potential on the table than others.

Most players who come into DZC find it a much better thought out system. Each faction seems to get some units that are too good for the points, but not by too much that it disturbs the game. It helps add flavour as the special units create a signature style for the armies you see on the tabletop for that faction. There is nice mix of AA, AT, infantry, objectives and missions that means a balanced force does well. David who started Hawk Wargames specifically has the goal to make a game where you can't spam and be competitive. From video interviews and the fact that rules get released as experimental to take feedback from the player community, you can see how much Hawk pays attention to having a well balanced and fun game.

Well Known Fact About GW Pricing Strategy Currency conversion shows 318 GBP equates to about 575 AUD. You could imagine a slight increase per stock unit for container shipping by sea to Australia, but that doesn't explain the price difference. GW regionally price and decided that Australia is an affluent country so price their product high here. With high Aussie dollar, it's double dipping, of course. Running a multi national company worth hundreds of millions of dollars is not small thing. They put thought into this and made their decision. I don't believe we should discuss that in this thread.

But I wanted to show how differently Hawk Wargames operates and how much cheaper it is to start Drop Zone Commander in Australia. The DZC starter set makes it even cheaper; it's insanely good value for a gamer to try a new game out.

Cheers,
Sword

 SwordOfJustice wrote:

Two game systems, two prices, a starting army of 1500 points (no shipping included below).
GBP 140 vs 318
USD $238 vs $519.25
AUD $253 vs $790

It's absurd how much you guys get shafted on stuff like this.

Balance is an important issue of why I started to play DZC. I already have orks and space marines and I feel they are not up to the task to defeat grey knights, eldar and tau in 7th edition. Since I dont like to use psyckers.