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Hello members of the ork forum!

My name is Wrex of the Urdnot clan, and I have been a lurker around these forums for a long time.

For a while, I've been considering getting into miniature wargaming, and have finally decided I wish to play Warmachine.


I'm interested in the Cygnar faction, and after conducting a bit of research using the battlecollege and an army list builder, I have created this 50pts list:



- Major Victoria Haley

- Lancer (x2)

- Ol' Rowdy

- Thunderhead

- Arcane Tempest Gun Mages

- Black 13th

- Alren Strangewayes

- Journeyman Warcaster

- Storm Knights (full unit)

- Reinholdt

I would appreciate any C&C.

I'm particularly worried I'm fielding a melee-heavy list (for Cygnar).

I would very much like to field Thunderhead, as I see him as the embodiment of what sort of a list I want (fun, but practical when used right).

He's also a cool model

Just my 2 pence advice

If you are looking into getting into War machine, then my best advice is get the Cygnar battle box first and if you have a local club with players see if you they can do a demo game for you.

The battle box will get you used to the game mechanics and give you a good starting point to build from.

The problem jumping in straight at 50pts is at that level you could end buying a lot of models that don't work together and you could end up getting beat badly by people who have practised and we'll constructed lists which could put you off the game.

Though Battle College is a good source of reference I wouldn't rely on it for building lists.

As for Thunderhead or DJ Thunder as he is known as, any of the Nemo's would be the better choice to run him with.

Like I said that's my 2 pence.

Yeah I would be careful about buying a full 50pt list off the bat if you have never played before. You may end up hating Cygnar's play style or the caster you started with, or find that the models you brought don't really work together that well.

Anyways as far as the list goes:
2 Arc Nodes and 2 Heavy Jacks seems fairly high for eHaley. If you are just starting out the first thing you need to realise is that being a high focus caster is not the same as being a jack heavy caster. Jacks seem cool, but Infantry is much easier to use and much more forgiving to use - its pretty easy to lose a 10pt heavy to a single unit of charging infantry, but a full unit of infantry is usually going to take 2 turns or multiple units to finish off. None of Haley's spells buff jacks specifically, so all she can give them is focus, and like most Warmachine casters she wants to use almost all of it herself. For example if you Deadeye'd the Gun Mages, TK'd your Arc Node into position and then cast Time Bomb you have already used almost all your focus. Ol'Rowdy or a Stormclad or a Stormwall + single Lancer or Thorn is probably a good starting point. Its also worth noting that eHaley has a jack bond, and who you bond makes a huge difference to how the list plays - you can't bond character jacks other than Thorn, which is why you usually see Stormwall or Stormclad rather than Ol'Rowdy or Thunderhead with her (or just bond to Thorn).

Gun Mages are a solid choice in almost any Cygnar list. Black 13th are as well but less of an auto include imo.

Strangeways is definitely worth bringing at 50pts when you have a heavy jack that likes to shoot, but he won't run a melee jack by himself because of the way power booster works (that and if he is running a melee jack he is going to end up dead pretty quickly). Essentially his usefulness depends on what you do with your jacks.

Journeyman aka Arcane Shield Caddy is a solid choice as well.

Storm Knights are not an actual unit? There are Storm Guard and Storm Blades or Sword Knights, but no Storm Knights. Sadly I don't think I have seen any of them other than Sword Knights on the table, and they were being used purely as a cheap chaff unit. Cygnar players seem to use Mercs for infantry quite a bit (which again is one of the major issues with trying to build off of BattleCollege, because all the Merc stuff is listed separately), Boomhowler for a jamming unit and Forgeguard for damage output.

Other than that I certainly wouldn't say that this is a melee heavy list - you have a single melee unit and a melee heavy, and then you have 2 shooty units, a shooty heavy and two arc nodes (who are technically melee jacks but they aren't really melee units). Your caster has no melee buffs and is heavily support orientated as well unlike some casters who get stuck in in melee as well (i.e. 3Butcher, who is going to make his army a melee heavy list by himself).

Thorn, you need Thorn, Reaction Drive, HIs imprint, and his affinity with Haley makes it well worth his points, and disruption on his spear is a nice touch.

Why Reinholdt, not saying he is bad but I cant see why you chose him with this list, when the squire is so much better, I mean the extra focus, the reroll on magic attacks and the extra control area is very useful.

I recommend you drop one of the heavies, Haley is not a 'Jack Caster, so 4 jacks is a strech. You have The Journeyman, you have Strangeways, you can marshall an Ironclad or a stromclad (I recommed the stromclad if by Stormknight you mean Stormblades) or put a ranged jack on the Journeyman (give him a melee jack and he gets killed) so drop O'l Rowdy or the Thunderhead and get an Ironclad or maybe a Hammersmith

What stormknights unit are you using? Blades, lances or guards?

So, yeah.

I did a demo, and decided not to start at 50pts.

I'm starting at 25pts instead, but plan on climbing up to the next point value up to 50pts after every game.

So I've devised some 25pts lists to start from


List 1 -

pStryker

- Charger
- Ironclad
ATGM
Black 13th
Squire
Gobber Tinker
Stormblade Infantry
Gorman di Wulfe

Notes: Ironclad is a fairly good beatstick. It's cheaper than Ol' Rowdy, both in points and in dorrahs, and that leaves enough points to squeeze in di Wulfe. di Wulfe is going to be used to support both jacks by just casting on whomever is the biggest threat at the moment, and letting them hit a little harder. Squire should help Stryker have the focus to focus (pun intended) on both jacks at the same time. Stormblades are pretty powerful melee infantry, so should be able to cut through enemy infantry fairly easily. Couple that with some ranged support from ATGM . Black 13th can get snipe from Stryker, and then brutal damage enemy caster Gobber Tinker is just a cheap repair unit for the 'clad.

List 2 -

pStryker

- Ol' Rowdy
- Lancer
Black 13th
Gun Mage Captain Adept
Sword Knights
Gobber Tinker
Journeyman Warcaster
Gorman di Wulfe

Notes: Similar enough, but still different. Trading in the 'clad for Ol' Rowdy, and the squire for Jr. Black 13th +GMCA should be plenty of brutal damage on casters and jacks alike. Sword Knights are cheap, and get the flank from Lancer and reach. Should be good enough to stop any enemy melee infantry from being too bothersome. Gobber Tinker is again, a cheap repair. Jr. should be able to handle Ol' Rowdy with his efficiency, which means Stryker can cast away from his lovely arc node in this list. di Wulfe will likely support Ol' Rowdy in this list; helping him take out whatever jack I tell him to take out.

List 3 -

pStryker

- Hunter
- Hunter
ATGM
Storm Lances (3)
Journeyman Warcaster
Gobber Tinker
Gun Mage Captain Adept

Notes: This list is different from all the others, as should be painfully clear. One hunter per each caster, both of them working together to be a very strong support force with arcane shield on both, which should cover them from any nasty ranged damage, and they can sit back and comfortably pierce jack armor. ATGM is just ranged anti-infantry, to help avoid anybody getting too close to Stryker. Storm Lances can run around the board, with arcane shield when permitted to take down any nasty jacks, and combined with some supporting fire from the Hunters should be a very serious threat to any jacks. Gobber Tinker is again, just cheap repair. GMCA is my assassin; put sniper on him, and brutal damage a caster.

C&C?

Stormsmith doesnt do repairs.

What happened to Haley?

They don't?

Might have to find a way to fit strangewayes then :/

I decided Stryker would be better for me to learn my way around Cygnar.

I know for a fact that before I make the move to 50pts, I'll purchase either eHaley or Siege.

Stormsmith Stormcallers I assume you mean, they have no repair skill.

 DukeBadham wrote:
Stormsmith Stormcallers I assume you mean, they have no repair skill.

Yeah.

How would you modify those lists to fit Strangewayes?

Or is steinhammer better?

As Steinhammer can only repair Merc 'Jacks...

Strangeways.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh have a look at the Gobber Tinker.

Ok.

Because of Fury vs Focus, will the tinker work any differently from the way the other models work?

Why would fury or focus matter to a mechanik?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
But the tinker is 1 point, so you can replace your stormsmith with the tinker

 DukeBadham wrote:
Why would fury or focus matter to a mechanik?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
But the tinker is 1 point, so you can replace your stormsmith with the tinker

Ok.

What about the rest of the list?

Remember to keep Gorman safe, unless you absolutely have to black oil that 'Beast or Rust Bomb that 'Jack, dont be silly with Gorman, all it takes is a well aimed shot and he just dies.

EDIT: Also, usually its reccomended to post modified lists in a seperate post, not editting the old one, it can be confusing, if you are worried about the size of posting your lists again put the lists in spoiler tags.

So in larger games, it would make sense to run Journeyman and AS him?

No, as he has smoke bombs for a cloud effect and stealth, not every ranged unit can pick him off anyway, only those who ignore stealth (like certain solos) and have high RATS. but if you put him to far forward thinking he will be safe all it takes is one or two chaff models (temple flame guard, winter guard etc. etc.) to put him in melee and he is either dead or engaged so he cant throw his bombs.

Also if you put him to far foward any sorta solo hunter solo (ATGM Capt. Adept, or a Manhunter, or Pistol Wraith or something) will just remove him.

EDIT: Besides, there are always better targets for AS then a 2 point solo, like your 'Caster or a 'Jack or a unit.

EDIT2: And BTW welcome to dakka dakk dont forget to post in the introductions forum.

Ok. Just keep him behind cover or in the cloud or stealthed.

Do you think the lists themselves are any good?

Urdnot Wrex wrote:
Ok. Just keep him behind cover or in the cloud or stealthed.

Do you think the lists themselves are any good?

He is always stealthed, its one of his rules

The cloud is a *action of his, so you can only walk when you wanna smoke bomb, and you cant throw a grenade the same turn.

And tbh I cant say if they are good or not as
A) I dont know your play style
B) I havent got enough experience with pStryker or Ol Rowdy or the tinker myself.

I would recommend squeezing a Stromblade captain into a list with Stormblades. his weapon is really powerful and he lets you ignore terrain when charging with regular blades, useful when they can only move "8" when they charge.

I second that actually, and he makes it easier to charge as they can move through each other and draw LOS through each other making it a little easier to charge, and with a wepon master weapon, reach and cygnars high MAT scores, He makes a good beatstick himself.

I really like pStryker as a caster and still play him even now.

Ol' Rowdy is great choice as he is focus efficient and offers up some benefits to Stryker when in b2b. The Stormclad is also a good choice if you are running Stormblades.

You could go

PStryker +6
Ol' Rowdy 9
ATGMP & UA 8
Stormblades & UA & 1WA 9
Stormblade Captain 2
Journeyman Warcaster 3

For 35pts

I would look at Sylys or a Squire for more focus efficiency for Stryker.

Always go squire in my opinion but in your list the lack of an arc node would make Sylys a better choice for the extra range he gives spells that arent arced.

 DukeBadham wrote:
Always go squire in my opinion but in your list the lack of an arc node would make Sylys a better choice for the extra range he gives spells that arent arced.

Totally agree if running a Lancer then go Squire. Also Sylys is there for the free upkeep, always useful on a caster with 3 of them and for an effective signs and portents on a spell.

I bought the 25 point list gobo suggested, giving it a purple main color with some necrotic green, rhulic ghold, cold steel, and magenta highlights and mechanical bits and bobs.

Ol' Rowdy is a pain the ass to glue though

Urdnot Wrex wrote:
I bought the 25 point list gobo suggested, giving it a purple main color with some necrotic green, rhulic ghold, cold steel, and magenta highlights and mechanical bits and bobs.

Ol' Rowdy is a pain the ass to glue though

I just hope the list works for you now :-)