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'k, so if you have an IG heavy weapon team which consists of 2 infantry on a single 60mm base, how do you handle hits from template weapons?

Obviously, if a blast (large or small) completely covers the 60mm base, you would count two hits on the unit.

But what if a blast barely grazes the edge of the 60mm base; is that one partial hit, or two partial hits? How about if a flamer template touches the 60mm base, is that 2 automatic hits?

What is the RAW - also, if no RAW exists (as I suspect), then how do people actually play this?

If I'm counting the edge of the 60mm base for coherency, range to target etc., then I can hardly claim that a grazing flamer does not get two hits.

I'm currently modeling my IG HW teams with each trooper on a 25mm base, with both magneted down to a 60mm base with the weapon on it. I am considering ignoring the 60mm base for all rules purposes (range, being in cover, LOS etc.) just to avoid the headaches. Would this be tourney-legal? The IG codex only mentions that the two heavy weapons operators are based together 'for convenience of movement'...

Well GW are rather typically wishy-washy on this with their "based together for convience of movement" thing. I see no reason at all why you shouldn't use your method, using the base as a movement tray... infact that makes much more sense than anything else I've heard.

That said, the way we play it is that it's two models on one base with that base being the base for both models and so anything that affects the base (templates, blasts, etc.) hit both models (or partially hit both models). It just saves a lot of confusion and arguement while making heavy weapons teams more vulnerable.

My little work around is as follows.

According to GW: based together for convience of movement

So I just make a spot on the heavy weapon base where I could stand a "loader" Who has his own normal size base. Heck according to the Raw the loader does not even have to be in coherancy with the heavy weapon. Anyway, having a removeable loader with his own base clears things up when a blast or flamer hits.

That said, the way we play it is that it's two models on one base with that base being the base for both models and so anything that affects the base (templates, blasts, etc.) hit both models (or partially hit both models).

That's exactly how it works.

To break it down a little, we have two models on the same base. We'll call them Bob and Frank. Bob and Frank are seperate models, who just happen to share a base for convenience.

Your opponent drops a Blast on them. What happens? You treat them as seperate models.

Bob: if his base is covered, he is hit. If his base is partially covered, roll for it.
Frank: if his base is covered, he is hit. If his base is partially covered, roll for it.

The fact that the base is the same one in both cases matters not a jot so far as the rules are concerned.

Fair enough, that seems to be consensus.


It's too bad - 1st HW squads get screwed by lack of screening, then they have to be on huge bases such that a) it's tricky to get all three to have LOS on one target sometimes, and b) they're vulnerable to blasts/templates, effectively.

Don't feel like you have to mount them on that base. I've never had anyone complain about my guys being mounted seperately (on the normal bases). I have the two guys and the weapon on it's tripod as three seperate models. When CC happens the weapons get moved out of the way.

The convenience of having them based together is offset by their vulnerability to templates and their overly large footprint.
The ability to fit them in tighter spaces and being less vulnerable to templates is offset by the fact that you have to switch the position of the weapon when the "gunner" is killed by sniping weapons. The new position may be unfavorable causing the team to moveto get back into firing position. With the big base it doesn't matter the team just takes a wound and stays in position.

Yeah, while technically the rule on page 6 means they have to be on the large base, I've yet to come across anyone in an actual game who complained about seperately based teams.


The large base simply resolves several issues with the lack of rules in the codex to govern how the team actually works.

Well, I use old Mordians for some of my Guard...No problem there.

I also keep the gun/gunner on the large base for the Cadians and have the loader on his own base (Legal, as the base size is the same. Nothing says they HAVE to be based together...)

Posted By insaniak on 04/21/2006 6:55 PM
Yeah, while technically the rule on page 6 means they have to be on the large base, I've yet to come across anyone in an actual game who complained about seperately based teams.


The large base simply resolves several issues with the lack of rules in the codex to govern how the team actually works.

In my guard army, I mount all of them on smaller bases, its just more convienient, and solves more problems than it causes.  Also, you area supposed to use the bases that a model comes with, or larger, if you got your guardsmen before the large bases, they are on small ones, and you may use those.

"In my guard army, I mount all of them on smaller bases, its just more convienient, and solves more problems than it causes."

i'm curious, how do you do that with the lascannon/autocannon weapons on the small bases? do you use the 25mm round base, or the cavalry base?

Posted By skyth on 04/21/2006 7:20 PM
I also keep the gun/gunner on the large base for the Cadians and have the loader on his own base (Legal, as the base size is the same. Nothing says they HAVE to be based together...)

Yeesh, I don't like that.  The only reason I can see for dealing with the annoying footprint of the 60mm base, is the ability to take a wound on that base and keep the heavy weapon firing.  Even with range/MindWar/Vindi sniping.  Using the big base, and then putting the other HW team member (no gunners and loaders anymore!) on his own separate base, has all the disadvantages and few of the advantages.  If the guy with the gun gets range-sniped, presumably the HW would be gone!

I'm going to try using the big bases and sucking up the vulnerable to blasts thing.  Otherwise, I'll put 'em all on their own bases with the weapons on cav bases  like Glaive.

"HW team member (no gunners and loaders anymore!) on his own separate base, has all the disadvantages and few of the advantages. If the guy with the gun gets range-sniped, presumably the HW would be gone!"

Why would you say that? It is impossible to remove an IG heavy weapon with out at least putting two wounds on it... No trixsie mindwars or vindacares, or range sniping can do it. The reason? The rules for the IG heavy weapon team are an absolute mess... Technically it is two guardsmen "armed" with the same gun. Just because one dies does not mean that the other is not "armed" with that heavy weapon. Add the fact that the loader does not have to be in b2b with the shooter, and you can get some wierd results playing by RAW where the heavy weapon zips to the other side of the squad where the "loader" is standing after the gunner dies. However I have never seen anyone do this, and I would smack someone if they tried it. However like I say, base the two guys seperatly and then just stand the loaders base on the gunners larger base. Helps clear up all kinds of confusion.

Yeah, my post might have been a little confusing. foil's got it right. You can't range snipe the gunner out of the team and disable the weapon. The gun simply moves positions to the "loader" when we play. To avoid confusion though the team must be clearly defined as distinct from the rest of the unit to avoid cheating by moving the weapon to a more advantageous position.

I always keep them together anyways so most blasts will probably hit both guys. The only real problem is actual sniping weapons. I only base them seperately to fit them into areas like alleys and windows. Usually, this means that if the "gunner" gets sniped I lose a turn of shooting while the "loader" moves into the same position to fire the weapon effectively, but a player could take advantage of moving the weapon to the other model since the two models actually don't need to be near each other.

Posted By alarmingrick on 04/23/2006 11:30 AM
"In my guard army, I mount all of them on smaller bases, its just more convienient, and solves more problems than it causes."

i'm curious, how do you do that with the lascannon/autocannon weapons on the small bases? do you use the 25mm round base, or the cavalry base?

Good question.  My guard is a concept/counts as army.  my heavy bolters and missile launchers are carried by guardsmen,  the Lascannon/Autocannon are carried by an ogryn on a cavelry base.

The current plan is to have 9 man squads with the ogryn having 2 wounds.  majority rules makes it pretty much a non issue, and its not really a tournament army (though I'm sure it will see a couple) I figure if somebody has that big a problem with the plan, then I will just add a 10th person to the squad when I play them.

-Legacy40k

I just give the two models their own footprints (25mm diameter round "area" for the gunner and a separate base for the loader) and use the large base as a diorama/movement tray. Find this looks good, but haven't played with this army yet...

Posted By alarmingrick on 04/23/2006 11:30 AM
"In my guard army, I mount all of them on smaller bases, its just more convienient, and solves more problems than it causes."

i'm curious, how do you do that with the lascannon/autocannon weapons on the small bases? do you use the 25mm round base, or the cavalry base?

I base the weapon and one gunner on the medium round base and the load on a normal infantry base.