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Proposed rule:
Dreadnoughts and ironclad dreadnoughts retain same cost, weapons, and stats.

Dreadnoughts and ironclad dreadnoughts gain the Independent Character special rule.

Venerable upgrade gain's the following rule in addition to its current ones. - models in this unit may choose to pass or fail leadership tests.

Ironclad dreadnought grants Move Through Cover and furious charge to the unit it joins.

Any dreadnought variant may take an assault drop pod as a dedicated transport.

Assault drop pod - ( whatever that accurate deep strike rule is). Drop pod assault.
Transport capacity 10 models +1dreadnought.

Thoughts?

that ass dpod is op carrying so much and assault ramp rules.

It would be a nightmare to figure out shooting attacks vs. that squad. You'd have to come up with whole new rules for shooting a unit containing both AV values and regular toughness.

Its called HelCult Formation with a HelBrute+2 squads of Cultists.

I'm having a hard time figuring out what you're trying to say in general, Filch.

Are you suggesting the Helcult formation puts the Helbrute IN the cultist squad? It does no such thing. A formation does not make all the units taken in said formation and make it a single unit. It's just bringing that combination of things in your list gives you added benefits.

There is no assault ramp and the drop pod would be 90pts and function exactly like a regular drop pod but with bigger capacity.

 SRSFACE wrote:
I'm having a hard time figuring out what you're trying to say in general, Filch.

Are you suggesting the Helcult formation puts the Helbrute IN the cultist squad? It does no such thing. A formation does not make all the units taken in said formation and make it a single unit. It's just bringing that combination of things in your list gives you added benefits.

Treat those marines as 3+ cover for the dread. Have the marines make look out sir for the dred. As long as dred is alive, it grants xxxx rule like helbrute grants fearless until it dies in which case it grants zealous.

No need for complicated ic rules joining marines.

When shooting at or engaging a unit in cc with both Av and T values, after to hit rolls are made first determine whether the closest model has an Av or T value and then resolve accordingly.

But you couldn't treat it that way because the issue is wounds. Units are units. If it's joined to another unit, you do not have permission to shoot it separately.

You would have to make rules for shooting at units with mixed AV/toughness values, else there's literally no point in giving it Independant Character.

Also, it'd be pretty broken to be able to look out sir on a vehicle. Vehicles typically don't get to make any saving throws, so high power, bad AP weapons like auto-cannons would no longer be viable to shoot at said unit. People would just ping a LOS off their marine counterparts and get a 3+ save.

I am vehemently against this proposed rule. It would complicate things too much, or not serve it's intended purpose, and would be very easy to abuse.

But is it as complicated as DE Beast master squad with 4 different models?

I think the #1 thing Dreadnoughts need is an optional piece of Wargear that gives it the option to fire with the Skyfire special rule each turn. As a Grey Knight player, not much else would make the Dreadnoughts worth taking for us, but if the Grey Knights got this optional upgrade, I see no reason why it shouldn't be available to everyone else's Dreadnoughts.

As much as I would love to see something like this, im forced to say that NO this would make the game a bit to complicated. Including AV into a unit with Toughness means you have to figure out who is closest and then the Look out Sir rules take effect and on and on and on. Furthermore, by bringing the Dread into the squad what your really trying to do is give the dreadnought a wound pool. Kind of broken really. Granted it would finally give Martel a reason to like his tactical marines.