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I was looking at pairing the TIE Punisher with the Decimator.

Redline + FCS + Extra Munitions + Ion TOrpedoes + Cluster Missles

Chiraneau + Expose + Exper Interface + Moff Jerjerrod + Rebel Captive + Saboteur

The Tie Punisher has decent staying power and with the ton of locks he can maintain and generate every turn, he should be able to boost out of harm's way when needed. Also the ion torpedoes can mess with my opponents movement while still hitting pretty hard. Chiraneau is loaded up on crew to take full advantage of Moff Jerjerrod. (It seems that I'm always getting screwed by a blinded pilot at just the wrong time). I'll be able to use expose almost every turn with the interface and still get a lock or focus.

Wouldn't bother with saboteur, there are far better crew for that cost that you could take instead. Other than that the moff ain't bad, but Id rather put those points into something like isard, which gives you an action and evade, as opposed to discarding a crew for a one time crit removal.

Overall though I like the look of the list, fairly solid idea

Isaard actually won't work - I can't take the free evade action if I use the experimental interface to get expose in addition to a target lock or focus because I'd have a stress token.

As for the saboteur, I really don't have many other choices - tactician is nice, but it only affects enemies I'm shooting at in range band 2 in my front arc - with it being a turret - most of my shots are probably not going to be in the front arc. My only other choice is merc copilot which is about as good as saboteur as I'm turning a hit into a crit. I was deabting just using two intelligence agents instead of the rebel captive and saboteur just for the moff to chew through and then using the 3 points to add a hull point to the puinisher.

When is comes down to it - the saboteur is the first to go with the moff's ability, rebel captive 2nd and moff 3rd. That is 3 crits that I can prevent - I can't tell you how many times I've lost because the decimator gets hit with a blinded pilot or weapon malfunction or direct hit or one of the other really bad effects.

Azeroth wrote:
Isaard actually won't work - I can't take the free evade action if I use the experimental interface to get expose in addition to a target lock or focus because I'd have a stress token.

It still works just fine. You take a focus/TL in the activation phase (and don't take any stress), then when Isard triggers you activate EI to use expose. EI doesn't care what action you use to trigger it, or when that action happens.

(This trick also works really well with PTL and engine upgrade. You take a normal action at PS 8, and then at PS 99999999999 you use PTL to boost after everything has moved.)

My only other choice is merc copilot which is about as good as saboteur as I'm turning a hit into a crit.

It's much better than saboteur, simply because saboteur is one of the worst upgrades in the game. You're never going to have an action available to use it, and even if for some bizarre reason you decide to throw away damage and use your saboteur you're not even guaranteed to get any benefit out of it. Of course an intelligence agent is better than either, and if you can find another point to take Vader it's a hard counter to Fel and similar threats.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
Other than that the moff ain't bad, but Id rather put those points into something like isard, which gives you an action and evade, as opposed to discarding a crew for a one time crit removal.

I have to disagree with this. Isard's free evade is nice, but how many turns are you really keeping a decimator alive once you've taken hull damage? Flipping a direct hit face down is worth the same as a spent evade token, and there are a lot of crits that can cost you more than the one point of damage you stop with an evade token. For example, losing RAC's pilot ability and EPT means a huge drop in firepower, and that means enemy ships are staying alive longer and getting to take more shots at you. Not taking an extra range-1 shot from a FCS b-wing is probably going to be a lot more damage prevention than a free evade token or two.

hmm, that is a sneaky way around on the expose/isarrd dilemma.

Actually, I can use the Saboteur and expose in the same turn. For my action, I choose saboteur and then EI for Expose. The nice thing is that you can get crits on Chewie and possibliy screw over your opponent's ship if they happen to have something nasty come up. RAC has a built in focus in a way and while I wouldn't have a target lock, if I had one from the previous turn, I couldn't use another.

BUT, with being able to use Isaard, I could add Isaard and an intelligence agent and remove the rebel captive and saboteur.

Azeroth wrote:
Actually, I can use the Saboteur and expose in the same turn. For my action, I choose saboteur and then EI for Expose.

Sure, you can use expose, but then you're giving up focus/TL which is still sacrificing damage. Expose is really only worth the huge investment when you're getting focus + TL already, if you're rolling unmodified dice because you spent your other actions on saboteur then you're getting less out of expose then you'd get out of a TL.

The nice thing is that you can get crits on Chewie and possibliy screw over your opponent's ship if they happen to have something nasty come up. RAC has a built in focus in a way and while I wouldn't have a target lock, if I had one from the previous turn, I couldn't use another.

But this is really a niche role. Think about how many things have to go right for this to work. You have to:

1) Have damage cards on your target ship already without destroying it (unlikely against b-wing lists, for example).

2) Have a TL left from a previous turn so that you aren't giving up more (average) damage than you create with saboteur.

3) Have a target where crits are relevant (for example, not a ship that you're going to kill this turn with conventional damage).

4) Get within range 1 of the target (and want to get within range 1 of your target's guns) with a ship that doesn't have any maneuvering actions.

5) Pass the 50% roll to flip a card.

6) Flip a relevant card.

That's a lot of things that have to go right to make your investment work, and most of the time something in that chain of requirements will fail. Saboteur is a classic example of a "trap" card: it's very easy to think about the perfect situation where it does something awesome, but most of the time it falls well short of that potential and you're lucky if you get anything out of it at all.

BUT, with being able to use Isaard, I could add Isaard and an intelligence agent and remove the rebel captive and saboteur.

This is probably a good idea, but I wonder if there's a way to keep the rebel captive. It's really good for limiting your opponent's options, especially late in the game when they don't have "extra" ships to soak up the stress. But points seem to be really tight in this list.

 Peregrine wrote:

Azeroth wrote:
Actually, I can use the Saboteur and expose in the same turn. For my action, I choose saboteur and then EI for Expose.

Sure, you can use expose, but then you're giving up focus/TL which is still sacrificing damage. Expose is really only worth the huge investment when you're getting focus + TL already, if you're rolling unmodified dice because you spent your other actions on saboteur then you're getting less out of expose then you'd get out of a TL.

The nice thing is that you can get crits on Chewie and possibliy screw over your opponent's ship if they happen to have something nasty come up. RAC has a built in focus in a way and while I wouldn't have a target lock, if I had one from the previous turn, I couldn't use another.

But this is really a niche role. Think about how many things have to go right for this to work. You have to:

1) Have damage cards on your target ship already without destroying it (unlikely against b-wing lists, for example).

2) Have a TL left from a previous turn so that you aren't giving up more (average) damage than you create with saboteur.

3) Have a target where crits are relevant (for example, not a ship that you're going to kill this turn with conventional damage).

4) Get within range 1 of the target (and want to get within range 1 of your target's guns) with a ship that doesn't have any maneuvering actions.

5) Pass the 50% roll to flip a card.

6) Flip a relevant card.

That's a lot of things that have to go right to make your investment work, and most of the time something in that chain of requirements will fail. Saboteur is a classic example of a "trap" card: it's very easy to think about the perfect situation where it does something awesome, but most of the time it falls well short of that potential and you're lucky if you get anything out of it at all.

BUT, with being able to use Isaard, I could add Isaard and an intelligence agent and remove the rebel captive and saboteur.

This is probably a good idea, but I wonder if there's a way to keep the rebel captive. It's really good for limiting your opponent's options, especially late in the game when they don't have "extra" ships to soak up the stress. But points seem to be really tight in this list.

saboteur is only there because there really isn't anything to spend 2 points on. Anything at that point level left to add in this list is niche anyway. On the admiral, focus is rarely used - I only have a 1 in 8 chance of rolling a focus icon per die, I would have to roll at least 2 of them to ever use the focus as Chiraneau already converts one to a crit. The lock is the one that I'd want more, but the thing is that if I use Saboteur or mercenary pilot, they are both very niche roles - the mercenary pilot can only be used at range 3 - in games I've played, I rarely stay at range 3 of my target. The saboteur won't be much use against a bwing, true, but it should be useful against a falcon, yt2400, and decimator, or even IG88's ship. If I was able to get a damage thru on a Fel or such kind of pilot, it could also help a lot. It is a risk using if I don't already have a lock, but the possibility of taking away a ships attack, or reducing its threat by lowering its weapon damage or taking away a piloting special ability is huge. Imagine if there is a situation where a ship has only one damage left on it and a flip over a direct hit? I've just taken out a ship of theirs and freed up my ship to shoot at a different target. Whichever I end up using is really only until Chiraneau gets his first critical at which point I discard either the saboteur or merc pilot. It really comes down to whether I want Isaard or the rebel captive.

Azeroth wrote:
saboteur is only there because there really isn't anything to spend 2 points on.

Intelligence agent.

On the admiral, focus is rarely used - I only have a 1 in 8 chance of rolling a focus icon per die, I would have to roll at least 2 of them to ever use the focus as Chiraneau already converts one to a crit.

Your math is wrong. You have a 25% chance of rolling an {eye} result on a single die, so for a 4-dice attack (range 2) you have a ~26% chance of rolling 2+ {eye} results. At range 1 that goes up to 37%. Target lock complicates the math depending on how aggressively you re-roll, but essentially every 3-4 attacks on average you're going to be losing damage because you rolled multiple {eye} results and didn't have a focus token.

Imagine if there is a situation where a ship has only one damage left on it and a flip over a direct hit? I've just taken out a ship of theirs and freed up my ship to shoot at a different target.

And this is what I'm talking about when I say that saboteur is a "trap" card: you can imagine situations where it does something awesome, but 99% of the time it's a dead card that only exists to be sacrificed for crit prevention. Situations like this are a tiny minority of what happens in real games, so tiny that you might as well pretend they don't exist.

 Peregrine wrote:

Azeroth wrote:
saboteur is only there because there really isn't anything to spend 2 points on.

Intelligence agent.

Or tactician, or even a merc co-pilot. Saboteur is the worse option.

 Peregrine wrote:

Azeroth wrote:



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
Other than that the moff ain't bad, but Id rather put those points into something like isard, which gives you an action and evade, as opposed to discarding a crew for a one time crit removal.

I have to disagree with this. Isard's free evade is nice, but how many turns are you really keeping a decimator alive once you've taken hull damage? Flipping a direct hit face down is worth the same as a spent evade token, and there are a lot of crits that can cost you more than the one point of damage you stop with an evade token. For example, losing RAC's pilot ability and EPT means a huge drop in firepower, and that means enemy ships are staying alive longer and getting to take more shots at you. Not taking an extra range-1 shot from a FCS b-wing is probably going to be a lot more damage prevention than a free evade token or two.

For a good few rounds in a two ship meta. Moff is a little underrated but Isard is almost always the better choice.