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Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User





I just joined the forum and made a thread in the introductions section. I want to play Space Marines, I think I will do a homemade chapter though Black Templars are my favorite. But as a new player I don't know how Space Marine armies function. Not sure if I should have a dedicated army that specializes in one thing or having a wide mix of units. I don't even have a codex yet or really understand all the rules. So I am just looking on GamesWorkshop's site to see what is available. I have been told that SM are a more shooting army over melee.

So I am not sure how I want to build my force which will probably be small since I am starting new. Even though I am using a homebrew chapter, if I need to I can substitute HQ units right? Meaning say i really like the model of the Chaplain but I want Marneus as my Hq. Can I use the chaplain but give him Marneus' stats and gear?


As a total noob, in my head I am thinking of having 2 tactical squads, 1 hq unit (don't know what's good) 1 devestator squad, and I don't know how good dreadnoughts are but they look pretty sweet. I have read online that SM assault units are very poor (since most people claim SM are a shooty army)

Would you mind giving a new player a sense of direction because I feel very lost lol With all these weapons like meltas, flammers, etc I don't know what they excel at.
   
Made in gb
Deva Functionary





Well, Suspicious Pancake, first of all welcome to the forums and welcome to the hobby!
Space Marines are quite a flexible army, geared mostly toward shooting (though tbh most 40k armies are), but they can hold their own ok up close.

When it comes to using one model as something else, it's generally frowned upon- most people play WYSIWYG (what you see is what you get). Using a chaplain model to represent Calgar is a bit of a stretch. That said, using Calgar's model with his rules in your own chapter, especially if you paint him your own colour scheme, most people would be fine with. Even better would be to convert your own model with the same gear that Calgar has and give him a new name, back story and dating profile.
If you want to do that it's a good idea to stick to special characters and rules from the same chapter though. From a gaming point of view, mixing and matching special characters to suit your game style is a bit... beardy (to use a very old term).
It's also worth mentioning that Calgar costs a lot of points and would look out of place in a small game, as your first games are probably going to be. I'd suggest starting small and working up. Chaplains are a decent HQ choice (though better in a more close combat themed list).

Your list is a pretty good start. Dreadnoughts are pretty cool, though slow. Most people play them in a drop pod to get them close to the enemy. Tac squads are decent generalists. They also benefit from transport, both for initial protection and because their weapons work best within 12". Devastators are good and providing long range support. It's usually best to equip them for one purpose to the exclusion of others, so giving the Lascannons for tank hunting for instance. Don't bother with heavy bolters, as they're pretty underpowered.

As for weapons:

Bolt weapons (Boltgun, Bolt Pistol, Heavy Bolter): Decent anti infantry, can take out some light armour.

Lascannons: Anti-armour. Not super powered so need to be taken in quantity to take out heavier things. Long ranged.

Melta Weapons (Melta Gun, Multi-Melta): Excellent anti armour when under half range, and that's not very far. Can chew through most tanks but you need to give them to something that can get up close.

Plasma weapons (Cannon, Gun, Pistol): These used to be your go-to guns for taking out Terminator equivalents (abbreviated to TEQs on these forums, as opposed to Marine equivalent, MEQs). Somewhat waned in popularity due to the appearance of Grav Weaponry. Get hot, so may kill their users.

Grav weapons: Fantastic anti armour, as the better armour the enemy has, the easier it is to kill them. Basically these are the new Space Marine super-weapon so can get a fair bit of hate from other player. They have enough shots to threaten less heavily armoured infantry and can reliably take out tanks too.

Flamers (including Heavy Flamers and Flame Storm Cannons): Short ranged, powerful anti-light infantry weapons. Useful against Orks and other lightly armoured but numerous foe. Again, short ranged, so give them to something fast.

Missile Launchers: Supposed to be tactically flexible as you can use either of their types of missile, but you pay quite a lot for something that's not very good at either of it's jobs. Not worth giving to Tactical squads or Devastators, though can still be handy on the Typhoon variants of Landspeeders, or Terminators Cyclone missile launchers.

Assault Cannons: Seen on quite a variety of vehicles, and carried by Terminators, these are good anti-infantry and anti light armour weapons.

Anyway, hope that all helped.

Az
   
Made in us
The Marine Standing Behind Marneus Calgar





Upstate, New York

Welcome to Dakka, the hobby, and Space Marines.

A lot of your questions will be answered once you read the rules and look through your codex.

You can take named characters, but everyone should have the same chapter tactics. There are ways to mix Ultramarines with Black Templar, but as a starting player, you should just pick one and run with it. If you want to run calgar in a BT army, you could just call him a captain with a pair of power fists, and not use his special rules.

When building a Take All Comers (TAC) list, you need to make sure you have some weapons to deal with a variety of targets.

Heavy armor (melta guns work best, lascannons as well)
Medium/light armor (MLs, auto/assault cannons, plasma)
Hordes of troops (flamers, large blasts, massed small arms)
Flyers (Anti-air is a fuzzy topic, and one that usually doesn’t come up in small games)
Monstrous Creatures (For the most part can be treated like medium armor, but there are some subtle differences)

You also need to get scoring units down the table to put a boot on objectives.

Now with marines there are a lot of ways you can gear up units to fit in different roles. Or fill multiple ones. Some units are more efficient then others, but very few things are irredeemably bad in more casual play. If you are getting into the competitive scene, obviously you are just going to want the cream of the codex.

The list you have looks to be a fairly balanced fun low point list. One thing I’d recommend is a pair of rhinos for the tac squads. Unless you want to go with drop pods, which are a high risk/high reward option. There are pros and cons to both, so it’s a mater of taste.

HQ:
Librarians are good, generically useful HQs. Also not an option for Black Templars.
Chaplains are focused for CC, and good, low cost HQs. But they want to be smashing heads, so don’t take one without an assault element.
Techmarines are generically useful, better for armies sitting back and shooting.
Captains/Chapter Masters are good CC beatsticks, but need a decent investment in gear to get rolling.

SM close combat is not the best, but that’s not the end of the world. An old adage is “shoot the choppy, chop the shooty” Our CC units don’t need to be better then the other CC units, they just need to be better then the shooty units and backfield campers. And they are. Assault marines are a bully unit. Go romp around your opponent’s backfield, find someone weaker then you, and mug them. Or at least tie them up for a few rounds to make the shooting stop. A chaplain and a 5 man assault squad can cause a good bit of havoc. Full discloser: bikes do it better, but with less style. YMMV.

   
Made in us
Ruthless Interrogator





Hello and welcome to the Astartes brother pancake!

I would like to give you the options to possibly run some close combat oriented units, and the good news is that you can use the Black Templars to do it!
For the HQ option in your list you have 2 named characters to choose from that are pretty neat to use, and then you've got the Emperor's Champion who is a very solid choice for an HQ.

Consider running Crusader squads which are a mix between scout squads and tactical squads that get some extra cc weapon options and can take Land Raiders as a dedicated transport.

Then for dedicated cc units there are Vanguard Veterans with power weapons and Jump Packs and Honor Guard in a Land Raider or Assault Centurions to choose from.
Command squads on bikes and with power weapons and a narthecium can also be used in this purpose as well if you want to.

Using either


Space Marines: Jacks of all trades yet masters of GRAV CANNONS!!!.
My Star Wars Imperial Codex Project: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/641831.page
It has 7 HQs, 2 Troop types with Dedicated Transports, 5 Elite units, 5 Fast Attack units, 6 Heavy Support units, 2 Formations with unique units not in the rest of the codex, and 2 LOW choices.

‘I do not care who knows the truth now, tomorrow, or in ten thousand years. Loyalty is its own reward.’ -Lion El' Jonson 
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User





Hey thanks for the quick replies! Now when I said Marneus, that was just an example of a named character I pulled out of the hat. And I wouldn't have a named Ultramarine fighting with a named Space Wolves character (although I know there are new allies use but...)

And I don't plan on playing in any tournament but even though I will play casual I don't want a useless army build XD
I can't believe how expensive space marine tanks are! $100? Geez. How would an army under 1500pts be without using tanks, almost all infantry based?


Using Marneus as an example again, I would hate it if I bought him and after playing with him find out that I want to use someone else. That's why I figured if I bought a model that looked nice overall I could use that as a flexible hq choice. I think the Emperor's Champion models look nice.
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Atlanta

Dark Angel player here so I don't know the ends and outs of your codex but a lot of the strategies are the same. Tanks and transports can be very crucial. I'm a big fan of drop pods to get your guys where they need to be. They also provide additianal objective grabbers (especially if they are purchased as dedicated transports for troops).

I personally like to have armies that are balanced and can cover a wide range of abilities but at the unit level, I prefer very specialized units. If a unit isn't doing what you spent points for it to do, then it's wasting points and units rarely do two or more things at the same time.
   
Made in gb
Boosting Space Marine Biker




Space marines have a lot of variety and can play most styles, pick one and go for it

TAC=a big mix of all different types of units, nominally shooty but will have one or two units for melee and can generally out melee most other shooty armies

Drop Pod=be a space paratrooper, drop in kill everything at short range but you will ONLY have short range and few traditional heavy weapon platforms except tanks

Gunline=techmarines, tanks, snipers,devastators and razorbacks, you'll want to have few actual infantry but lots of big guns on those guys

All out assault= Land Raiders, Jump packs, bikes or just masses of bodies marine power armour can get you into the fight and your HQ's will make a mockery of most thing with the right wargear

There are also all bikers White scars and ambush Raven guard armies but those i personally know less about playing so will let someone else explain

   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User





Hmmm, with the drop pods do you have to actually use the drop pod model?

EDIT: And drop pods do seem pretty cool. Maybe have a shooty army but with a drop pod assault to bring in either terminator squad or dreadnought. Which do you think is better?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/09/20 18:31:41


 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Atlanta

 Suspicious Pancake wrote:
Hmmm, with the drop pods do you have to actually use the drop pod model?


if your playing in a garage a red solo cup might be fine, but if your playing at a store, you'll probably want to have the model.
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User





Ok. I just edited my post but looks like you alreadyposted XD

Would it be a good balance to have a shooty themed army but with using one drop pod for maybe a close quarters dedicated unit or squad? Like a dreadnought or terminator squad?
   
Made in gb
Boosting Space Marine Biker




a lot of players do that with either a dreadnought with MM heavy flamer, Ironclad, Sternguard with combi meltas and maybe heavy flamers or command squad with melta guns and apothecary (i even do it with a chaplain and assault Cents but thats not exactly very reliable). Don't generally put pure assault based units like vanguard or terminators in for that job though as they'll have a turn in which they can't charge, terminators also don't need a drop pod since they can teleport

Mostly drop pods are for delivering melta armed units rather than assault units, if you want just one assault unit in your shooty gunline i suggest they sit back out of sight of your army and are used for countercharging any units that are a threat, ASM actually aren't bad for this though vanguard or a dread is better
   
Made in gb
Boosting Ultramarine Biker





 Suspicious Pancake wrote:
I just joined the forum and made a thread in the introductions section. I want to play Space Marines, I think I will do a homemade chapter though Black Templars are my favorite. But as a new player I don't know how Space Marine armies function. Not sure if I should have a dedicated army that specializes in one thing or having a wide mix of units. I don't even have a codex yet or really understand all the rules. So I am just looking on GamesWorkshop's site to see what is available. I have been told that SM are a more shooting army over melee.

So I am not sure how I want to build my force which will probably be small since I am starting new. Even though I am using a homebrew chapter, if I need to I can substitute HQ units right? Meaning say i really like the model of the Chaplain but I want Marneus as my Hq. Can I use the chaplain but give him Marneus' stats and gear?


As a total noob, in my head I am thinking of having 2 tactical squads, 1 hq unit (don't know what's good) 1 devestator squad, and I don't know how good dreadnoughts are but they look pretty sweet. I have read online that SM assault units are very poor (since most people claim SM are a shooty army)

Would you mind giving a new player a sense of direction because I feel very lost lol With all these weapons like meltas, flammers, etc I don't know what they excel at.


Space Marines have a large array of weapons at their disposal and multiple units to take all comers.
Vanguard Veterans are incredible assault choices for their cheap upgrades and Drop Pod melta/grav Tac Squads are the bread and butter of most lists these days, with your Russian Nesting Dolls of HEAVY WEAPONS (Centurions) forming your filling, add tanks/scouts/bikes to taste, mix well.
I would highly reccommend you state whether you want to win or have fun; because for advice on what to get this can make/break the codex.

Albert Einstein wrote:
If you don't think you have any TFG's at your club, you are the TFG

Full Chapter + Kabuki Guilliman

3700 Points + Kabuki Vulkan
XIIIth Legion 8500 Points + ForgeWorld Guilliman
'Does Sigismund deserve a slap, Captain Torgaddon? Probably. In the spirit of comradeship, let him be. He bruises easily.’ - Rogal Dorn  
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User





rowboatjellyfanxiii wrote:
 Suspicious Pancake wrote:
I just joined the forum and made a thread in the introductions section. I want to play Space Marines, I think I will do a homemade chapter though Black Templars are my favorite. But as a new player I don't know how Space Marine armies function. Not sure if I should have a dedicated army that specializes in one thing or having a wide mix of units. I don't even have a codex yet or really understand all the rules. So I am just looking on GamesWorkshop's site to see what is available. I have been told that SM are a more shooting army over melee.

So I am not sure how I want to build my force which will probably be small since I am starting new. Even though I am using a homebrew chapter, if I need to I can substitute HQ units right? Meaning say i really like the model of the Chaplain but I want Marneus as my Hq. Can I use the chaplain but give him Marneus' stats and gear?


As a total noob, in my head I am thinking of having 2 tactical squads, 1 hq unit (don't know what's good) 1 devestator squad, and I don't know how good dreadnoughts are but they look pretty sweet. I have read online that SM assault units are very poor (since most people claim SM are a shooty army)

Would you mind giving a new player a sense of direction because I feel very lost lol With all these weapons like meltas, flammers, etc I don't know what they excel at.


Space Marines have a large array of weapons at their disposal and multiple units to take all comers.
Vanguard Veterans are incredible assault choices for their cheap upgrades and Drop Pod melta/grav Tac Squads are the bread and butter of most lists these days, with your Russian Nesting Dolls of HEAVY WEAPONS (Centurions) forming your filling, add tanks/scouts/bikes to taste, mix well.
I would highly reccommend you state whether you want to win or have fun; because for advice on what to get this can make/break the codex.



Ok well let's put it this way: I want to have fun but I want to win sometimes
I don't want to make an "unfair" team that is annoying to play against. I mainly want to make a force that looks good and plays well. Take those new centurion models. I think they look hella goofy and don't think I would use them. I have also heard it is a great idea to put your HQ on a bike.Again, I think that looks silly (imo) so even if it is a really great tactical idea I might not do it because what really draws me into playing is being able to paint and customize a really great looking force. I don't even really have the spare money to jump in and buy a lot of units but I would like to start building a paper army so I can get a good idea of what I will need/want and the cost.


I'm thinking of having something like this:
1 HQ (I have no idea who's good. If I should run with a named character or just use something like a Chapter Master)
2-3 Tactical Squads (not sure on exact weapons yet)
1-2 Devastator Squads
1 Dreadnought
Maybe a squad of Terminators
And I think tanks are way too expensive so I might not get a tank. That's why I would like to have a more infantry heavy army because you can get more models for less amount of money. Maybe instead of having a tank I can just equip more marines with heavy weapons and maybe have an extra devastator squad. I don't know yet as I don't know what's good or not. This is just a rough idea so far.
   
Made in gb
Boosting Ultramarine Biker





Terminators are REALLY squashy and a huge point sink.

I'll explain more in detail tomorrow.

Albert Einstein wrote:
If you don't think you have any TFG's at your club, you are the TFG

Full Chapter + Kabuki Guilliman

3700 Points + Kabuki Vulkan
XIIIth Legion 8500 Points + ForgeWorld Guilliman
'Does Sigismund deserve a slap, Captain Torgaddon? Probably. In the spirit of comradeship, let him be. He bruises easily.’ - Rogal Dorn  
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Atlanta

Also, always take odd numbers of drop pods to make best use of the first round arrival.
   
Made in gb
Boosting Space Marine Biker




I'd say go for a techmarine with harness HQ, he'll bolster ruins to give your dev's a better place to hide.

Grab some rhino's so your tactical squads can go and take objective whilst being harder to kill stick the Techie in with them for a guy who can fight decently in combat is cheap and has great overwatch ability

Stick probably some assault cannons and heavy flamers on your dread, maybe get a second and use them close support for your tac marines

in fact

HQ

Techmarine with Conversion beamer (in with the devs)

Troops
3x10 tac marines with plasma guns and multimeltas in rhinos

Elites
Two dreads with assault cannons and heavy Flamers

Heavy support
2x5 man dev squads with 8 Lascannons

puts you just under 1250 points, a respectable amount with decent firepower for all types of enemy and a few points left spare for some flavour equipment, your units infantry are weak to assaults but your dreads can stay close to help out and you have 40 power armoured bodies 30 in rhinos
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User





It really stinks that there are no gamesworkshops or gaming hobby store near me. Well, even if I don't get around to making an actual army I would still like to maybe buy a set or two of tactical squads and just paint them for fun. I like to paint

But if I did make an army, the one that GAdvnace listed sounds pretty nice, though I don't think I would use a tech marine (it might be a good idea but i like the look over practicality)
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





I will say a few things to help you perhaps shy away from some less competitive choices (if competitiveness is even a thing for you of course). At the end of the day, play what you have fun playing but here are a few units I THOUGHT would be good when I started, and learned the hard way that they were (maybe not bad, but...) not as good as I hoped.

- Dreadnaughts. They are awesome when you get them into combat with something they are good against (which is, well, everything) but they are far more fragile than you might expect. As with many marine vehicles, hull points will be the part that makes you cringe. You dont need to blow up the dread, just do 3 glancing hits against AV 12, which a LOT of units in the game can do. If you go with dreads, I recommend ironclads (AV13 makes a difference) and using them in pods or squads of 3. Single dreads are either suicide units (hope that multimelta gets a tank in one shot, not very reliable) or a distraction. Either way a single on usually doesnt live through the turn after it is dropped via pod.

- Terminators. I love termis. I really do. I just dont use them competitively. For the points they cost they just arent good enough at the jobs you need them to do, and they die like dogs against so many things : grav weapons, plasma, melta, lascannons, and their worst enemy = weight of dice. I will never forget throwing 10 assault terminators at a squad of 30 basic ork boyz and watching in amazement as the boyz 90 attacks killed every last terminator while I killed about 15 boys in return.

- Assault squads. Good idea, just not good enough at their job to justify the choice. Its not so much that they are bad at assault, just that other units do the job better. Remember that these guys have 1 basic attack with +1 from 2 weapons. A basic ork boy has 2 with +1 from 2 weapons and they can have 3 times as may boyz per unit... Now against the ideal targets these guys do quite well (basic infantry and troops) but getting them into combat with those types of units is tough and I have found it better to have a unit that can do that AND kill other things as well.

- Tanks. Sure, some people will think me crazy here as it depends on what armies you face what is good and what isnt, but I have found that marine tanks lack hitting power for their points and suffer the same fragility issues as dreadnaughts. Used well they can suppliment a force but I would not use them as a primary threat as they are just too easy to kill.

9500 
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User





Well thank you Gideon999 I really doappreciate your post.
Now like I said I don't plan on doing any tournaments and half of this army I want to be for playing and trying to win and the other half will be just about having fun painting my favorite looking models. I have been looking around at different HQ choices and a lot of people say that Librarians are great. So if I had something like this, would it still be a good force to play with? (not trying to be top tier mlg)

Librarian

2-3 Tactical Squads

1-2 Devastator squads

1 Dreadnought

1 Assault squad (I think lightning claws look epic)

1 squad termies

I think this army has a nice variety and includes my favorite units (assault, terminator and dread. Purely cosmetic)



Now if you don't mind I wanted to ask a couple questions. Sorry if I am making this thread drag on but everyone here has been very helpful and nice =)

1) If I have tanks and use them as transports do they count as heavy support still? (sorry, no codex)

2) How do terminators teleport? Is it just an ability they have?

3) Are dreadnoughts better for close range, mid, or long range fire?

4) Are Librarians a good HQ choice? I do really like the model for the "emperor's champion" as long as I had everything written down and explained prior to a non-tournament match do you think the opponent would mind if i used him as a librarian? I just really like that model


Thank you guys so much for the help!
   
Made in gb
Executing Exarch






 Suspicious Pancake wrote:
Now if you don't mind I wanted to ask a couple questions. Sorry if I am making this thread drag on but everyone here has been very helpful and nice =)

1) If I have tanks and use them as transports do they count as heavy support still? (sorry, no codex)

2) How do terminators teleport? Is it just an ability they have?

3) Are dreadnoughts better for close range, mid, or long range fire?

4) Are Librarians a good HQ choice? I do really like the model for the "emperor's champion" as long as I had everything written down and explained prior to a non-tournament match do you think the opponent would mind if i used him as a librarian? I just really like that model
1) Most transports (Rhino's, Razorbacks, etc.) are Fast Attack, Land Raiders are HS. But if you take them as a Dedicated Transport, the. They do not take up a Force Organization slot at all.

2) Terminator Armour gives the ability to arrive via Deep Strike as part of it's rules.

3) They are versatile enough to be kitted out for any, although dual-ranged Dreads pay to lose the power fist, and dreads get quite a few attacks in melee now.

4) I really like Librarians as HQ choices - they're cheap force multipliers, but suffer from not having an invulnerable save (meaning combat, particularly challenges, is riskier). They're excelent for small games when you don't want to splurge on an expensive combat monster.
On using the EC model - I don't mind proxy models, but find they get annoying after a while.
What colour do you intend to paint his armour? Most (Codex) Librarians have blue armour, helping them be identified in-game.

{Edit} Expanding on (4) a bit - I'm absolutely fine with the EC being used as a counts-as Captain or whatever, as I can look at him and he's obviously a close-combat model. Personally (and it's entirely just me) Librarians are significantly different enough (psychic hoods, books, scrolls, blue armour) to deserve a proper model when you find one you like (or convert your own, Grey Knight parts etc.).
Also, you mentioned Black Templars. If you are using their Chapter Tactics, you cannot take Librarians at all (it's one of the few CT's with an actual downside).

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/09/22 05:48:01


 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





UK

 Suspicious Pancake wrote:

Now if you don't mind I wanted to ask a couple questions. Sorry if I am making this thread drag on but everyone here has been very helpful and nice =)

1) If I have tanks and use them as transports do they count as heavy support still? (sorry, no codex)

2) How do terminators teleport? Is it just an ability they have?

3) Are dreadnoughts better for close range, mid, or long range fire?

4) Are Librarians a good HQ choice? I do really like the model for the "emperor's champion" as long as I had everything written down and explained prior to a non-tournament match do you think the opponent would mind if i used him as a librarian? I just really like that model


Thank you guys so much for the help!


There is a Tyranid tactics thread that is 343 pages long, don't worry

I'd say Codex: SM and DA should have CC dreads. Maybe BA too (yet to be updated for 4 attacks).

So long as your opponent knows what a model is and gives their consent, then anything is fine. BT can't take Librarians though, so it would have to count as a Chaplain/Captain/Chapter Master instead, not that any of the aforementioned are bad.

Spoiler:
 Suspicious Pancake wrote:
Well thank you Gideon999 I really doappreciate your post.
Now like I said I don't plan on doing any tournaments and half of this army I want to be for playing and trying to win and the other half will be just about having fun painting my favorite looking models. I have been looking around at different HQ choices and a lot of people say that Librarians are great. So if I had something like this, would it still be a good force to play with? (not trying to be top tier mlg)

Librarian

2-3 Tactical Squads

1-2 Devastator squads

1 Dreadnought

1 Assault squad (I think lightning claws look epic)

1 squad termies

I think this army has a nice variety and includes my favorite units (assault, terminator and dread. Purely cosmetic)


Aside from the aforementioned Librarian no-go it looks good for a starting base. What loadouts would the rest of the army have?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/09/22 08:14:02


YMDC = nightmare 
   
Made in us
The Marine Standing Behind Marneus Calgar





Upstate, New York

Most “Is it ok if I...” questions need to be asked to the guys at your FLGS. The Emperor’s Champion could be a librarian with a force sword, but would probably raise an eyebrow or two. The Black Templar, of which he is normally a special character for, hate librarians. So using one of them as a counts-as might rankle the feathers of a few zealots.

That said, I’d not have a problem with it, although it would be better if you did some kitbashing work on him to differentiate him.

That said, while we might recommend librarians a lot here, there is nothing wrong with fielding captains. Even if you don’t want to field the Emp’s champ as his special character, he would work fine as a relic blade/artificer armor captain on foot for any chapter you choose to paint him as. Librarians are just generically good and fit into almost every list, so when people ask about HQs they filter to the top of the suggestions.

Your list looks reasonably balanced. Obviously specific wargear options might need tweaking, but the structure is sound.

A note on formations: 7th edition is big on formations, where if you take certain combinations of units, you get some nice free bonuses. Your list is close to one of the core SM ones: the demi company. That is then the base of the gladius formation, once you add a second formation to it. This will make more sense once you get/read the codex. Formations are more restrictive with what they let you take, but can be worth it from the free benefits.

But the demi-co looks like this:
Captain OR Chaplain (optional command squad)
(optional dreadnought)
3 Tactical squads
1 assault squad (can sub for bikes/speeders/etc)
1 dev squad (can sub dev cents)

There is another formation for a 1st company taskforce, which is basically any 3 veteran squads. You could take this to get your terminators into your list, but would need to get them some friends. Either more squads of termis, or some vanguard vets (who can all take lighting claws if you like those a lot) or sternguard, who are one of the better units in the codex.

Formations can be a confusing can of worms. And you can still play using the old system, and make good lists with it. But it’s worth looking into and learning to master.

   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User





Well i don't know much about specific weapons like flamers, meltas, etc so i guess i was thinking of having just one of each. Since i don't have a codex yet or understand all that much I'm not too worried about having all the gear and weapons planned out yet.

On the emperors champion issue, perhaps i could use some bits to make him more distinguishable or something.


I didn't know about taking combat tactics, that's interesting. I will have to read up on that.

Now if i do use a librarian, i don't have to use a codex chapter right? Is there any downside to that?

I made a thread in the painting section and shared a color scheme idea i am thinking of using. I might make vehicles and heavy support units silver though. But it's black with red shoulder guards with a gold shoulder trim.
   
Made in gb
Executing Exarch






 Suspicious Pancake wrote:
I didn't know about taking combat tactics, that's interesting. I will have to read up on that.

Now if i do use a librarian, i don't have to use a codex chapter right? Is there any downside to that?
Whilst normally what colour units are painted makes absolutely no difference in the actual game, the Space Marine Codex has one caveat to that - it gives you a list of seven "Chapter Tactics" (Ultramarines, Salamanders, Raven Guard, Iron Hands, Imperial Fists, White Scars, Black Templars), of which you choose one to apply to a whole detachment, and then the whole detachment receives a special rule which is different for each CT. The Black Templar one gives access to Crusader Squads (and some other bonuses), but means you can't take Librarians. Special Characters can only be in detachments of the correct Chapter (i.e. Marneus Calgar is only usable in an Ultramarine detachment). Aside from the special characters, the BT CT is the only one that restricts what you can take.

Now, there is absolutely nothing wrong with painting your army any colour you like, but it might get confusing to your opponent if your army is painted as Salamanders but using the White Scars Chapter Tactics. You sound like you've invented your own Successor Chapter, which is awesome, and also allows you to easily switch CT's between games until you find one that fits you.
   
Made in gb
Boosting Space Marine Biker




the emperors champion would be a difficult model to convert given it's currently in finecast and frankly that's a dog material

You could always just play black templars and use him then but that means you have to be a black templar player and it requires quite special mindset though it is fun i'd say

As far as chapter is concerned in the main Space marine book you have several different 1st founding and two second founding chapters detailed with their own rules

Ultramarines, White Scars, Imperial Fists, Iron Hands, Salamanders, Raven Guard are 1st founding and Black Templars and Crimson Fists are successors of Imperial fists who have their own special characters and rules though Crimson Fists and Imperial Fists actually are 100% interchangeable

you MUST pick the tactics/rules from one of these chapters but you do not have to use the colours, you simply play as a successor of one of these Chapters (there are also some forgeworld exclusive chapter tactics that can be downloaded for free, i personally use one of these) The only restrictions on librarians is Black Templars cannot use them

as far as colour scheme is concerned google 'space marine paint test' and use one to determine wether you think your colours will actually translate well into miniatures, there is a reason GW and FW have taken time to list different chapters and their heraldry, since plenty of first timers paint in whatever they feel like and find it does not fit. yours sounds decent but there is also guns colours etc to think about, play around a little, maybe even follow a GW scheme

As far as units are concerned, whilst units like assault squads, dreadnoughts and terminators of both kinds are generally accepted to be quite uncompetitive the Space Marines units are pretty much all decent, i even use arguably the worst unit in the dex (Assault Centurions) and frequently find them capable vs non cheese lists so whilst you might want to keep bad units to a minimum i wouldn't worry to much as pretty much everything in the codex will be useful at something
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




Tactical squads - taking heavy weapons is usually a waste (although it suits the fluff).

The situation that arises typically is that you don't want to move your guy with a heavy weapon (as then he snap fires) and so he slows the whole squad down.

Also, the rest of the combat squad will have bolters, so they have a different range and purpose (anti-infantry) than your heavy weapon (typically anti-elite/vehicle). You can only target one unit, so you end up 'wasting' firepower.

Devastator squads are better to run heavy weapons as you can specialise. Run four of the same weapon. Missile launchers are OK, a little cheaper than lascannons but not as effective anti-tank; they can fire frag missiles but good players space out their models 2" so small blast templates rarely catch more than 1-2 models. (Plasma cannon suffers from this, plus it gets hot!). Multi-meltas are a bit too short ranged to be useful. Grav weaponry is better taken on Centurion warsuits (they can move and shoot effectively).
   
 
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