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So, I'm just curious, as I've been reading a lot of things lately about the new T-70 X-wing and the TIE/FO. Does everyone really think they're going to make the old ships obsolete? People bring up numerous things such as "better dials" or "an extra shield", ext. But, I honestly don't think they're going to completely replace the old ships.

For example, "Omega Leader" is coming out towards the end of the year. 21 points for PS8, that extra shield, slightly better dial, and his ability makes it so that whoever you have Target Locked can't modify dice in attacks involving you at all. Not bad.

"Dark Curse" disallows Focus from being spent (so no Blaster Turrets or Proton Rockets) against him, and you cannot reroll dice while attacking him. Still an awesome ability. He's PS6 for 16 points. That's a 5 point difference, and we're talking TIE fighters here. Sure, the FO is better, but does it replace? No. At most you can bring 6 generic TIE/FOs in a 100pt list, as opposed to 8 standard Tie Fighters. I'd rather take the 8 ships over 6, and the old pilots even have some really nice abilities.

Then you have the T-70. Everyone I've seen doesn't like the T-65, either because it doesn't serve a purpose, other ships are better, whatever. Whatever your reason is, the consensus is people don't care for it. If you already don't care for it, the T-70 isn't going to change your mind.

Poe Dameron, PS8, slightly offensive/defensive ability, Tallon roll (which is nice), boost, extra shield. All for a whopping 31 points base. Do you wanna give upgrades to this guy? He'll easily be a third of your list. And, while he's not bad, he's still an X-wing. He has one more green maneuver, which in my experiences, it's usually not going forward that I want to go as a green. I played a couple of Tie Fighters against him and 2 Y-wings, and he died easily, as X-wings do. Plus, the boost portion is nice, but then you aren't using that Focus to use your pilot ability. Oh? Give him PTL? Okay, another 3 points, and more-or-less stuck with the same green maneuvers anyway.

Wedge Antilles is PS9, minus 1 shield, no Tallon roll, no boost, but has a much better ability in my opinion (he always gets it, he doesn't have to do an action to do so). All for 29 points. Eh, I would definitely take him in a heartbeat. Heck, even the other X-wings have some nice abilities, like Porkins, Biggs, or "Hobbie". Plus, a standard PS2 T-70 is 24 points, one point cheaper than "Hobbie", who's PS5.

Now, I'm not arguing these ships are not good. They are. And they're a ton of fun. I'm just stating that, personally, I feel people are over reacting and that the old ships will still be usable (especially the T-65 with the new Integrated card coming out).

What do you guys think? Feel free to express how you feel about the new ships compared to the old ones.

Honestly, I think that the TIE/Fo's will be an alternative to regular TIE fighters. They are more expensive, but you get what you pay for. Question is, can you pay for it?

T-70's, on the other hand, get a massive amount of Buffs for only a couple points more. Compare Poe Dameron to Luke (a better comparison than Wedge, due to the similarities of their abilities). For three points, Poe has a weaker ability (as he has to focus), an extra shield, boost, and a better dial. When you consider that Luke would need to buy an Engine upgrade to get a similar level of mobility, Poe is a point cheaper.

I think the new ships are good but I think that's more to do with the designers having more of an accurate feel for the value of a ships, pilot abilities, etc

This means point for point both the 'new' ships and 'old' ships should be balanced against other (with a few exceptions, mostly from the early waves, but hopefully FFG will sort that with tweak cards), and even without the new movie some of these ships
would have happened anyway, maybe not exactly what we have now as the T70 could have been one of the T65 variants such as a XJ

I'll most likely be sticking with the classic ships but a new starter and a handful of boosters of the new will help keep things fresh

Expect to see the balance redressed in future. Especially with the T65.

Ok, not every ship can be top tier, but FFG have had a good record thus far of taking the sub par and at least making it worthy of consideration. IA isn't going to be the only X Wing fix IMO, I think there's more to come.

I feel that the new T-70 is far better than the older T-65. The T-65 does have the benefit of certain unique pilots (Biggs?) and is cheaper, but I'm not sure how much we'll see it compared to the T-70. I used to play around with a 4 generic T-65 list, but I doubt that it'll see the light of space again compared to a 4 generic T-70 list.

The new TIE/FO is cool, but the PS1 is 3 points more than the Academy pilot, and when fielding a pure swarm, that's huge. I think that the TIE Fighters are going to be fairly evenly mixed between the old and the new. I know I'll be trying them both out.

 krodarklorr wrote:
Then you have the T-70. Everyone I've seen doesn't like the T-65, either because it doesn't serve a purpose, other ships are better, whatever. Whatever your reason is, the consensus is people don't care for it. If you already don't care for it, the T-70 isn't going to change your mind.

Honestly, I feel like this is one of those things thats only true on the internet. My local meta stills makes great use out of the T-65, and I personally also still get a lot of utility out of including them in my lists. They may not be the *best* ship in the game, but they are very much still valid options.

chaos0xomega wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:
Then you have the T-70. Everyone I've seen doesn't like the T-65, either because it doesn't serve a purpose, other ships are better, whatever. Whatever your reason is, the consensus is people don't care for it. If you already don't care for it, the T-70 isn't going to change your mind.

Honestly, I feel like this is one of those things thats only true on the internet. My local meta stills makes great use out of the T-65, and I personally also still get a lot of utility out of including them in my lists. They may not be the *best* ship in the game, but they are very much still valid options.

See, whereas in my Meta you occasionally see Biggs, and even more rarely Luke.

I think that this will be a generational type of question... much like "do you prefer the original trilogy or the prequels?"

I like the old ships because I'm old. I think that the new ships are a nice upgrade (particularly the T-70) and will see a lot of play, but I like the old ones better.

I love my T-65s. I've only started winning because of them. So I'm still happy.

The T-70 has a nice retro feel (I'm a sucker for Raplh McQuarrie's paintings), but the new TIE Fighter is just a repaint, really.

At the moment, I'm more likely to use the original ships, because there's not much available for the TFA period yet. Perhaps once we get a Special Forces TIE Fighter, a new Millennium Falcon, the First Order shuttle and some other ships, that will change.

Shhh, dont tell some people its a repaint. They will show you how they subtly resculpted very minor areas of the model and thus its a new sculpt.

chaos0xomega wrote:
Shhh, dont tell some people its a repaint. They will show you how they subtly resculpted very minor areas of the model and thus its a new sculpt.

That's because it is a new sculpt.

Does it have the silhouette of a TIE fighter? Yep. Outside of the cockpit windscreen, that's about where the similarities stop because just about everything else is different (the wing panels, wing braces, laser cannons, top hatch, rear cockpit ball, the surface texture of the cockpit ball). Feel free to go to page one on this thread and look at the pictures I posted (again).

Oh, I'm full aware that there are differences. What I'm saying is that those differences are insubstantial.

I'm talking from the point of view of the casual fan. Looking at the trailer, production stills and whatever, my first reaction to the new X-Wing was "cool, a new design!". My reaction to the TIE Fighters was "they're painted black now".

There are differences, and the new miniature is a whole new sculpt, though (and the painting method is different - rather than painting the whole model, it appears that most of it's bare black plastic, with only the different coloured areas painted).

The TIE/fo is basically just a palette swap. The changes that they have made to the aesthetics of the ship are almost too subtle to notice. But it is fun to play - the 2Sloops and green 2Turn really open up the maneuvering options in a furball.


The T-70 is really cool, it has that feel of an upgraded version of a venerable design (sort of like a Hornet vs Superhornet). I'm a little underwhelmed by them from a gameplay perspective. Poe is super fun to play, because his high PS allows for arc dodging and other re-positioning shenanigans. But for the most part, I prefer named T-65 pilots.

 DanielBeaver wrote:
The TIE/fo is basically just a palette swap. The changes that they have made to the aesthetics of the ship are almost too subtle to notice. But it is fun to play - the 2Sloops and green 2Turn really open up the maneuvering options in a furball.


The T-70 is really cool, it has that feel of an upgraded version of a venerable design (sort of like a Hornet vs Superhornet). I'm a little underwhelmed by them from a gameplay perspective. Poe is super fun to play, because his high PS allows for arc dodging and other re-positioning shenanigans. But for the most part, I prefer named T-65 pilots.

I like adding 1 tie/f0 to the standard swarm, you have the points and that new dial has actually helped me.

As long as Wedge doesn't get a T-70, my local meta will still see a lot of the old T-65

 ClassicCarraway wrote:
As long as Wedge doesn't get a T-70, my local meta will still see a lot of the old T-65

Yes. Especially with Wedge Getting access to BB-8, and Biggs gaining the integrated mech.

With a decent paint job, the tie/fo is going to look quite different to the tie/ln. It's not been helped by the factory job.

In terms of the ships, I don't think it'll make a huge difference to the ties, but the t-65 x-wing still really needs a fix; it's still 1 or 2 points north of what it should be I think. To do that though they'll need to differentiate between the two x-wing types more.