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So I've recently played against a few Lizardmen players recently at my local GW, and I have to say some of the stuff Lizardmen get are astounding, bravery 10 all round, beefy characters and units (Temple Guard for example) and a butt tonne of summoning capabilities, as well as having some of the best Wizards in the game. Now this may be just down to personal experience, but playing against Lizardmen just seemed to be no fun at all, constant summoning really makes it hard to enjoy a pick-up game, as well as the insane amount of attacks from even basic units, even though both of my opponents were nice and friendly to play against, the armies they fielded were sadly not.

So it might just be down to personal experience, but I'm curious as to whether anyone else has found Lizardmen less enjoyable to play against, or whether or not you find them to be broken or OP, or maybe you think they're fine, I just want to see if I'm the only one who's had this sort of experience fighting them!

Cheers all!

I haven't played against any Lizardmen yet, and I don't know of anyone who plays them at my local GW. What I can tell you is that this is something which comes up a lot in AoS discussions; some people play to win at all costs, and thus take a pretty OP approach to list building. I must admit, the bravery 10 is a bit of a weird thing to have, but from what I understand, it works with the fluff of the army too...

It's possible in AoS in pretty much every army to play OP. The way the turns work. One army can wipe the board of another within two turns even if both players would seemingly appear OP. I've found that one local player who fielded an Empire army was obliterating absolutely anything that came up against him, and soon enough, people got a bit bored and didn't want to play anymore.

It's supposed to be a fun game, and that's exactly how the rules and lists have been put together. You can now play what you think looks cool; something that works for both the player and GW. The general rule we have at my club outside of GW is 'don't be an ass', and it seems to work well.

I have played both with and against lizardmen. Lizardmen are an awesome force, with lots of rending weapons, high bravery, lots of wizards, and character buffs for specific troops. Their one downside is almost everyone has a 4+ save or worse (including characters).

However, I have also beaten them. Don't worry about summoning as the sudden death rules kick in once you are outnumbered....

Stormcast eternals, Brittonians, and Deamons/Warriors of Chaos will give the lizardmen a run for their money. Stormcast, Brittonians, and Chaos have better armor and can hit just as hard. Deamons... well, they are basically the evil version of the spiritmen/lizardmen

Um... Sudden death isn't affected by summoning...

RoperPG wrote:
Um... Sudden death isn't affected by summoning...

I've read about a number of clubs that make sudden death available if outnumbering occurs through summoning. Nothing I've played in, but there's a few posts on these boards that have mentioned it. Seems to work well enough for them.

From a fluff perspective, I find myself with a bit of a disconnect on these guys. I "got" them in Warhammer Fantasy, but in AoS, they're suddenly celestial light beings that explode into holy fire when cut down? At least that's what I remember from beneath the Black Thumb.

I just kinda need more background on them in AoS, I think.

 Red_Zeke wrote:
From a fluff perspective, I find myself with a bit of a disconnect on these guys. I "got" them in Warhammer Fantasy, but in AoS, they're suddenly celestial light beings that explode into holy fire when cut down? At least that's what I remember from beneath the Black Thumb.

I just kinda need more background on them in AoS, I think.

Yes this is one change I'm not really getting yet. Seems weird Lizardmen don't have places they live in the realms, but are daemons now. I guess it goes with the dragon god thing. Would like to have their new fluff get fleshed out.

That's what I'm wondering as well.They're the only good race to reach the realms without dying first.

Did the old ones get a hold of them and reprogram into daemon killers to get revenge?

Did they form some kind of connection with the realms when they found them? (The exploding into daemon banishing light makes me think of a big influence from Hysh.)

Can't wait to find out!

Yes, I wondered if there is a 10th realm, another immortal realm like the realm of chaos, but it's opposite. The immortal realm of Order?

RoperPG wrote:
Um... Sudden death isn't affected by summoning...

Correct. However, the wording for tabling someone (your standard major victory) reads to include summoning. So if your opponent summons a lot you may win even if they table you (because once they summon they're above 100% of their force; so you still only need to kill their original model count).

ShaneTB wrote:

RoperPG wrote:
Um... Sudden death isn't affected by summoning...

Correct. However, the wording for tabling someone (your standard major victory) reads to include summoning. So if your opponent summons a lot you may win even if they table you (because once they summon they're above 100% of their force; so you still only need to kill their original model count).

Can't see that in the rules, am I missing something?

Summoning seems to only affect minor victories, where RAW all summoned troops count as casualties, RAI* slain summoned troops count as casualties. Meaning a player could 100%+ casualties while still have models left on the table.

*In other language versions the RAW matches the RAI

Try using the daemon cohort in the summoner's helgate. That combo seems to be pretty dangerous and could put up a good fight vs lizardmen. Both are armies able to summon more summoners.

 slowclinic wrote:

RoperPG wrote:
Um... Sudden death isn't affected by summoning...

I've read about a number of clubs that make sudden death available if outnumbering occurs through summoning. Nothing I've played in, but there's a few posts on these boards that have mentioned it. Seems to work well enough for them.

Fair enough to make house rules; the actual game rules are clear that summoned units do not count towards the size of the army to which they are summoned, though

It is worth knowing the true rules before making changes to them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Getting back to the main topic, I considered making a Lizardman army because I like Aztecs, but gave up the idea due to cost.

I think the summary of their strengths and weaknesses given by 455_PWR is spot on, judging from the War Scrolls.

However probably any particular army has strengths and weaknesses. The Dwarves have a lot of rending and good artillery, for example.