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Made in gb
Battleship Captain




So - we have the rules for the Siglite's chief henchman - and it's not experimental rules, but a 'preview of HH6', so they're not going to change.

He's not devastating in a fight, although he's no slouch - marines as a rule struggle to get 3+ invulnerable saves and eternal warrior is much rarer in HH than 40k. But what you're really buying him for is the Oath Of Moment rules. See the forgeworld preview for more details but essentially it's an extra secondary objective worth 1-3 VPs that you pick before the game and keep secret from your opponent - but you can't win if you fail it.

I found myself wondering how best to use this. a theoretical 3 victory points is a big deal, even in a maelstrom game. I was thinking about pairing him with a Legion Delegatus Consul:

If you take the Chosen Duty rite of war, you get an extra victory point if the Delegatus survives, and your opponent gets one if he dies.
Pair that with the Oath Of Moment Protector - where you get 2 victory points if Garro's protectee survives - and you're looking at a game-winning difference.

If he dies, the enemy gets 2 victory points (Chosen Duty + Slay The Warlord)
If he lives, you get 3 victory points (Chosen Duty + Protector)

a 5 VP swing is something you can potentially build a big part of your strategy around - and your opponent kind of has to honour the threat, even if he doesn't know if you've taken protector, because you might have. The fact that it's one of the missions where Garro himself doesn't actually have to survive makes it doubly useful.

Theoretically, the consul can dig into a fortification somewhere and you can make your opponent come to you and try and dig him out. A Legion Castellum Outpost fitted with plenty of emplaced weapon and manned by Veteran Tactical Squads is probably not nice fun to take when your opponent really can't afford not to. A line of tank traps to keep knights and dreadnoughts at a healthy distance and a hostile signal jammer to avoid deep strike attackers is probably a sensible investment.

And to make matters better, you could pair up Garro with a veteran squad with outflank for support, and he can't be sure you're not trying to go for Hand of the Sigilite and take an objective in his backfield.


Anyone else had any thoughts about this?




Termagants expended for the Hive Mind: ~2835
 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




Very interesting idea. Not sure if 3VP is worth the investment and risk.. but could be.

I hadn't noticed the Oath of moment was kept secret from the opponent. That's quite a big opportunity for mindplay.

it looks like Garros strengths are showing up somewhere awkward and chopping up stuff that doesn't have a 2+ (like.. heavy support squads. artillery batteries etc.

his problem is 2+ armour and vehicles stop him in his tracks, which isn't great for 175 pts.

alternatively rock him up with chainfist terminators in a spartan and use him as a powerfist tank.

DFTT 
   
Made in nl
Brainy Zoanthrope





You instantly lose the game if you fail the oath thats a pritty darn big risk.

Unless you knew your oponent was bringing a primarch for king slayer it has a good chance to lose you game. Killing garro and some independant charcater aint too hard to accomplish.
   
Made in il
Warplord Titan Princeps of Tzeentch






Well, a protector/hand mindplay coupled with the complete and utter counter to primeaachs with headsman-it seems a viable plan if you build around it.

I love that mindgames is getting put in the game, even if only at such unique scenarios. really brakes the routine of the game when I must ask myself "just what is he trying to do?"

can neither confirm nor deny I lost track of what I've got right now. 
   
Made in au
Terrifying Treeman






The Fallen Realm of Umbar

Just pick protector, take an obnoxiously hard to kill character and sit them in a spartan most of the game and you have a guaranteed 2 victory points, for the low, low price of 175 points.

DT:90-S++G++M++B+IPw40k07+D+A+++/cWD-R+T(T)DM+
Horst wrote:This is how trolling happens. A few cheeky posts are made. Then they get more insulting. Eventually, we revert to our primal animal state, hurling feces at each other while shreeking with glee.

 
   
Made in us
Depraved Slaanesh Chaos Lord




Inside Yvraine

If you're paying for a Spartan that you'll be using defensively and an obnoxiously hard to kill character that will be a passive part of your force due to not wanting him to get killed... that's a lot more than 175 points for 2 VP's. Closer to 500, probably.
   
Made in au
Terrifying Treeman






The Fallen Realm of Umbar

Hardly, even hard to kill characters will often charge out at targets of opportunity. Don't forget that Garro is scoring as well, so really, he's getting you 5 instead of 2 (depending how much of the enemy you remove of course).

DT:90-S++G++M++B+IPw40k07+D+A+++/cWD-R+T(T)DM+
Horst wrote:This is how trolling happens. A few cheeky posts are made. Then they get more insulting. Eventually, we revert to our primal animal state, hurling feces at each other while shreeking with glee.

 
   
Made in us
Rotting Sorcerer of Nurgle






The Dog-house

Anyone else notice the RAW someone could pull with this guy? His "test Ld and stand back up" could and will be abused.

H.B.M.C.- The end hath come! From now on armies will only consist of Astorath, Land Speeder Storms and Soul Grinders!
War Kitten- Vanden, you just taunted the Dank Lord Ezra. Prepare for seven years of fighting reality...
koooaei- Emperor: I envy your nipplehorns. <Magnus goes red. Permanently>
Neronoxx- If our Dreadnought doesn't have sick scuplted abs, we riot.
Frazzled- I don't generally call anyone by a term other than "sir" "maam" "youn g lady" "young man" or " HEY bag!"
Ruin- It's official, we've ran out of things to talk about on Dakka. Close the site. We're done.
mrhappyface- "They're more what you'd call guidlines than actual rules" - Captain Roboute Barbosa
Steve steveson- To be clear, I'd sell you all out for a bottle of scotch and a mid priced hooker.
 
   
Made in au
Terrifying Treeman






The Fallen Realm of Umbar

Howso? It says the first time you lose your last wound, there can be, by definition, only one first time.

DT:90-S++G++M++B+IPw40k07+D+A+++/cWD-R+T(T)DM+
Horst wrote:This is how trolling happens. A few cheeky posts are made. Then they get more insulting. Eventually, we revert to our primal animal state, hurling feces at each other while shreeking with glee.

 
   
Made in us
Depraved Slaanesh Chaos Lord




Inside Yvraine

 Krellnus wrote:
Hardly, even hard to kill characters will often charge out at targets of opportunity. Don't forget that Garro is scoring as well, so really, he's getting you 5 instead of 2 (depending how much of the enemy you remove of course).
Your opponent is going to do absolutely everything in his power to bait you into attacking "targets of opportunity" because he knows that he has to kill only one model to instantly win the game.
   
Made in gb
Battleship Captain




Well, to instantly Draw, anyway. You can't lose from failing Oath of Moment, you just can't win.

Protector is probably an option better suited to something like a Master of Signal - stand somewhere safe with a heavy support unit and fling shells at the enemy.

Unless you knew your oponent was bringing a primarch for king slayer it has a good chance to lose you game.

Well, you decide what oath to take at the start of the game, so you can never have 'chosen the wrong one'. Kingslayer is a pretty straightforward choice; given that a Primarch will wreck massive amounts of face, you probably need to take him down regardless - plus he's the enemy warlord, plus I can't recall if a Primarch Lord Of War grants victory points for being killed like superheavies do. Of course, killing a primarch ain't 'xactly easy.

Killing garro and some independant charcater aint too hard to accomplish.

True....but you don't necessarily know which one. An Age of Darkness force org chart has 3 HQ slots - one of which will be Garro - plus a theoretical Allied HQ. I know which one I'm trying to keep alive. You don't - it doesn't necessarily have to be my warlord.

There are some tricks you can throw out, anyway. If you're trying to keep a model alive, you can keep it off the battlefield for at least a turn by putting it in reserve. Plus, your opponent should need to chew through a decent size squad to reach him. Plus, probably shoot him out of a transport or fortification.

Finally, there's the cloaking array relic - that'll buy you another turn if everything goes wrong.

his problem is 2+ armour and vehicles stop him in his tracks, which isn't great for 175 pts.

Don't dismiss him too easily. He'll struggle, but Rending and Preferred Enemy is a nice combination - and he can actually hurt a walker at I5, which is something the inevitable Paragon Blade-wielding praetor can't do.

His main trick is his survivability - again, he can't be killed on turn 1 (he's not there), and there's a good chance you can't engage him on turn 2 - there's a 50% chance he's not there until after your turn 2, and a 33% chance he won't turn up even if you go second. When he does turn up, he's more or less unkillable on that turn too thanks to By Falsehood Cloaked..... that gives an opponent only 2 turns (probably) to hunt down and kill a 2+/3++, eternal warrior, effectively-four-wound model that could be anywhere in his deployment zone. That's not all that easy.



Termagants expended for the Hive Mind: ~2835
 
   
 
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