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I posted this on Warseer and figured I'd post it here too, as they are very different forums these days.

I checked out the new Choas Warband rules, and was a little saddened that Skaven weren't in it. It did get me thinking, what might the future hold for Skaven now that they have clawed their way into the actual chaos pantheon?

I've always felt they were very close to Chaos. Chaos in the lore is the psychic manifestations of the emotions of the various races, turned to dark. Khorne is the manifestation of anger and war, Nurgle is the manifestation of complacency, slothfulness, and hopelessness. Tzeentch is about the twisting machinations of manipulation and forward progress gone mad, and Slannesh is consumption, vice, stimulation and addiction taken to extremes.

The Skaven seem to have aspects of all these, even Khorne. after the five major clans, (Eshin, Skryre, Moulder, Pestilence, and the Order of the Grey Seers) There are Clan Morrs and Clan Rictus which are warlord clans. These two clans have even rose in prominence from time to time supplanting Moulder and Eshin in their rank of importance on the council of the thirteen.

With all that in mind, Skaven more then anything seem to encompass political gain, treachery, greed, and utter ruthless selfishness.

At the head of the Council of the Thirteen is the great horned one himself. Now that he is a full Chaos god, one would assume his goal would be to become the strongest one, with the most power possible. How might this start to manifest? I think that using the other chaos gods as a template would be a fun exercise. Lets get started!

Demons!!!

The Verminlord seems to be a specific aspect of each clan from the council, and doesn't appear to at any point have been mortal. I think this easily puts him on track as being the Grater Demon of the Horned Rat, the personification of Skaven come to the mortal world from the warp.

That leaves Demon princes and lesser demons. Demon prices would be a mortal Skaven who has ascended to the rank of Demon Prince. I would think there could be one from each clan, they may even hunt each other leaving gaps from time to time. It could also be a champion underneath the actual main council member, as they may not want to ascend. I've got some ideas for how they might look, based on each clan.

Eshin might be a ghost or an inchoate form stabbing from darkness, Skryre may have a body of metal and brass, festooned with an array of warp-driven weapons and devises for gathering and storing the winds of magic. Moulder would have a body made from sewn parts gathered from other creatures. Pestilence might have a ginat corpulent form, or to differentiate them from nurgle an emaciated and this body with bone exposed, the flesh sloughing off from the many diseases they contain, and wielding a massive censor. The Warrior Clans might just have hulking bodies clad in heavy armor and weilding an array of deadly warp stone-infused weaponry.

Lesser demons I'm a little fuzzy on. (HA!) Most other chaos gods have a mount and rider of some sort, foot soldiers, and than a smattering of weird creatures, large creatures, flyers, or swarms. The problem is I'm not sure cavalry fits skaven, they don't really ride things. I also don't see a chariot or flyers in their future. On top of that, they already have access to Giant Rats and Rat Swarms, so that leaves quite a few places to really brainstorm on what their demons might look like.

One idea I had was a Rat King. these are supposed to be rats nests that became so big the rats tails become knotted together. They were supposed to have great intelligence due to being in close proximity and gained magic powers. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rat_king_%28folklore%29 This would give both an awesome model and something that seems warp-worthy. My other idea is a burrowing demon of some sort, and a hybrid of rat and demon for the foot soldier. It would also be possible to theme these along the different clans.

Marks and Gifts of Chaos!!

What would the mark of chaos grant the Skaven? how would this affect aspiring champions? Are there Skaven "Warriors of Chaos?" What does Chaos Armor on Skaven look like? How about Skaven Chaos Spawn for the champion who got too many gifts? On that point, what sort of Gifts of Chaos would Skaven get?

I've had a few ideas. one might be the ability to steal, stop, or use another command ability from an enemy hero. Gifts may be the ability to trade spaces with another friendly model in order to get away (or into) the fray. For chaos armor I don't see it changing, it just being a fully enclosed suit that cannot be removed. Gifts could also incorporate aspects from the different clans like extra limbs, warp-weapons, etc. I also thought it would be neat to roll on the chart when a Skaven hero dies, instead of enemy heros to represent the Chaos champion tricking their rivals into a death situation.

Chaos Cultists!!

Can other mortals appeal to the Great Horned Rat? are their insane mortals running around imitating the Skaven in the hopes for a boon? Maybe in the war-torn settlements where there is little food and resources, a great cult arises fighting over what scraps are left. seeing this, The Great Horned Rat rewards the selfish and awful behavior with gifts that only encourage hording and stealing. Greed and Avarice becomes an end unto itself.

If mortals who aren't skaven can get gifts, this opens up a whole new door of modeling possibilities.

Chaos Terrain!!

I'd also like to do some Skaven Chaos-themed terrain. what does the Skaven controlled Realm of Chaos look like? What do their monoliths look like, and what might their realm gates look like?

I was thinking about holes in the ground for the gates, it would seem they would move up and down in a horizontal portal rather then in a vertical one. I also like the idea of them breaking them into smaller pieces, or mounting them on engines of war. With the freedom of AoS moving away from blocks, I think taking advantage of that and making a network of tunnels for terrain would be cool too, making a literal rat maze.


What do y'all think? I've been thinking for my next round of modeling coming up I'd like to make some of these. What's great about AoS is I can just grab whatever seems like the most relevant warscroll and just field my fuzzy demon army as a proxy. My general idea is to make armies and terrain to go hand in hand with scenarios and campaigns, making a point to play to the strengths of AoS in Warscrolls, terrain, and rules.

I think Skaven are at home with chaos but I don't think they need to fit fully in (with marks and the like). They're quite "chaotic" enough on their own and with their own god, so I couldn't see them getting gifts of chaos and the like. In some ways, they have a bit of the Orcs & Goblins appeal in that they're their own style

So while I am totally fine seeing them under the chaos banner, I would keep them distinct in style (and hopefully they will also continue to have their own vibe in rules, too, as those have also always been very unique for skaven).

The background certainly supports that, all the other chaos gods appear to hate Skaven, even Archaeon.

Maybe the allure of other mortals worshiping The Great Horned Rat is kinda far fetched, but I was thinking it was like when Slaanesh was born, how it spread from the source to encompass all. In other words no matter the source or origin of a chaos god, once it is a part of the pantheon I feel like it might spread.

The less tenuous bits are the demons, marks and gifts. They already have many instances of gifts being bestowed upon Skaven (Lord Skrolk, tearing out his eyes after seeing the glory of the Great Horned One in person, so that was the last thing he ever saw. His action was rewarded with a "sixth sense" allowing him to keep hitting things.) Maybe that could just be more prevalent in the characters?

They should have Demons and Princes, only for the selfish reason that I want to sculpt some up!

Agree with RiTides. Skaven are already monstrous and don't need to be daemonified. Rather than making them closer to daemons, I'd prefer if GW continued to focus on their existing distinctive identity.

well, that's two MODs voting nay, fair enough! I suppose I have enough Skaven anyways. no need to make more.

Whoa whoa whoa -- there's always room for more Skaven! My vote is just to keep them on the path they're on. They really are super characterful as it is.

Skaven terrain sounds all kinds of cool. Massive steam punk pipes, sewers and rusty brass machines. I also love the idea of a horizontal realm gate.

I've been dreaming dark skaven fantasies for a while now. A skaven army would mean I would have at least one army from each of the grand alliances... So very tempting....

Since AoS terrain is active, I can imagine warpstone (or AoS equivalent) shards that burst out of the ground and incite nearby Skaven to frenzy while poisoning non-Skaven,

 Bottle wrote:
Skaven terrain sounds all kinds of cool. Massive steam punk pipes, sewers and rusty brass machines. I also love the idea of a horizontal realm gate.

I've been dreaming dark skaven fantasies for a while now. A skaven army would mean I would have at least one army from each of the grand alliances... So very tempting....

That's where I'll probably start. I'm coming to the end of a show and we have a lot of Styrofoam left over. I have enough sheets to do a 6x4 table with three levels, highest depth would be around 15 inches. I'm gonna go all out I think, full Necromunda style terrain, making essentially Skaven mines. I also learned on this show how to make styro cutters from scratch, so I'll make some Nichrome wire wands for easy cutting. (think nun-chucks where the rope in between is 2-3 feet long and heats up.)
I still have plenty of high impact sheet styrene left over from my last big 40k project, so I'll have everything I need for base structures,along with a few sheets of 4x8 balsa to make all the woodwork mine braces.

I'll also have to keep in mind the new interaction of the terrain like you said, Manchu. I forgot it's much more like 40k, which means I can even nick the building and structure rules. along with interactive elements like the Warpstone you mention, I think I'll take a crack at mine carts, Brass pipes, warp refineries and factories, traps, and of course a Realmgate. I've been thinking of the Realmgate, I like the idea that they industrialized it and possibly use it for something as mundane as moving refined warpstone from the mine to a supply line for the current war effort. That also gives a easy reason why another army would wanna invade the mine! (or maybe they overran the Skaven lines and come in through the Warpgate!)

I'll also probably keep the Skaven imagery removable so I can use it for 40k.


I think you can have too much Skaven, I still have a few hundred models left to paint that aren't rank and file. not to mention I missed out on all the End Times models. You should start a Skaven army for sure, Bottle. Skaven and Orks are the most fun to model and paint, in my opinion.

I also realized talking about all this that Skaven are the most successful chaos cultists to date, they literally made their own god and demons, as it were. (take that, Eldar! we didn't kill our entire civilization doing it, either!)

Man that sounds awesome! Looking through your gallery I think you could pull this off with style too.

And, oops... just bought a Skaven army! £20 for the Island of Blood set on sprue. Not bad me thinks :-)