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I feel like Gargantuans have absolute advantage over Super-heavy nowadays. It is so frustrating how a Knight can go down in one round of shooting, but things like Wraith Knight and Stormsurge last forever.

Here are some rules I propose:

- Get rid of Feel No Pain for Gargantuans. Instead, give both Super-heavies and Gargantuans It Will Not Die instead. These units are extremely important and it makes sense that all factions would want them to be recovered and made battle-ready no matter how badly damaged they are. There should be internal repairs and regeneration going on even in the heat of battle.

- Haywire causes glance on 4+ and cannot penetrate Super-heavies. If Poison does not work on Gargantuans, then why in the hell does Haywire work on Super-heavy?

- Instant Death causes D3 + 1 wounds on Gargantuan to be in line with Explosion result against Super-heavy.

How do you think about this proposal?

Its the same problem between Walker and MCs, though not -quite- as bad since supers are at least immune to immobilize/weapon destroyed.

Its that the vehicle rules, which supers are a part of, being so freakin bad as to why SHVs feel so moot to GMCs.

Though i admit im surprised nobody ever thought about the Haywire thing, and i agree on it. Haywire is essentially Poison for vehicles when you think about it, so it should be weakened. One could argue it should be a 6+ since Snipers/Poison hurts GMCs on a 6, but Haywire isnt spammable (least far as i know) so 4+ sounds just to me.

I'm still a fan of the idea of flat out doubling all vehicle HP, supers or not, to make the Explode! result an ideal way of killing them but not auto-death level of powerful (nonsupers take D6 so they can potentially survive it). When you have a multitude of ways to lose extra health another unit type doesnt have to suffer at all, you should have more HP to compensate to some degree.

I like all of it!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Vineheart01 wrote:

Though i admit im surprised nobody ever thought about the Haywire thing, and i agree on it. Haywire is essentially Poison for vehicles when you think about it, so it should be weakened. One could argue it should be a 6+ since Snipers/Poison hurts GMCs on a 6, but Haywire isnt spammable (least far as i know) so 4+ sounds just to me.

+ haywire is totally spammable with Admech, Tau and now eldar too.

Admittedly i am used to seeing D spam eldar not haywire, which is even worse, so far as i know they dont spam haywire. Nobody around me owns Admech so i know nothing about them. Tau can only truely spam Haywire via EMP grandes and im sorry if a firewarrior squad charges your super youre doing something horribly wrong - one of the squishiest units in our codex thats actually fielded (so kroot/vespid are out of that comparison) that can be wiped off the board in seconds the moment they become a real threat.
I wouldnt consider Y'varha spamming Haywire either, though its still a threat. Its one of the units that makes me agree to the SHV Haywire resistance, since it basically automatically does 3+ damage against vehicles.

A quick look through the Eldar Craftworlds codex shows the only haywire they get is via haywire grenades, so unless someone is spamming Swooping Hawkes they don't have that much access to haywire.

To much and just because gargantuan are really good doesn't mean they need to be as bad as most Superheavies.

My suggestion is just get rid of toe in cover saves for gargantuans and give them the same 25% obscured cover save that superheavy vehicles get. That's all that's needed.

gungo wrote:
To much and just because gargantuan are really good doesn't mean they need to be as bad as most Superheavies.

My suggestion is just get rid of toe in cover saves for gargantuans and give them the same 25% obscured cover save that superheavy vehicles get. That's all that's needed.

I would say there is more needed to fix the issue than that. Super heavies are surprisingly fragile and often have a higher point cost to a similar gargantuan (comparatively speaking).

I like the iwnd fule for both and removing fnp from gmc.

Haywire should also be nerfed by shv. Id say 5+.

Now how do i convince people to follow these rules?

Remove the protection against sniper and poison, remove the ease of cover saves for all monstrous creatures.

Done.

Taking away viable ways to kill units does nothing for balance, bringing back options that deal with units does. Nobody will spam wraithknights if they die to poison and snipers like death company marines.

Superheavy vehicles not dying like scrubs? Sign me up!

Heavy-Duty Systems: Such behemoth war machines are made of stronger stuff. Simple EMP and haywire weapons have little effect beyond singing the hull and burning the paint. Superheavy Vehicles of all types cannot be penetrated by any weapon without a strength value. Haywire weapons only activate once per unit which fires or assaults using a weapon, wargear, or other special rule which triggers the Haywire effect, which will resolve as follows:

6, a single glancing hit is scored.

2-5 no effect

1 the vehicle's systems absorb the power, either recovering a single hull point, not exceeding it's staring HP or restoring a void shield if the vehicle had not yet lost a hull point yet

Yes? No? Maybe??

Kinda makes no sense for them to heal from a haywire effect, since a haywire is basically scrambled power surges. Would be rather difficult to absorb dirty power (yes that is a term).

Also not being able to be pen'd by weapons without a Str value TECHNICALLY makes D weapons unable to pen them. D is not a strength value, its saying roll on the table not to wound/pen. They only "count as S10" for ID purposes, theyre not S10.