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As the title suggests, these are a few suggestions I've toyed with for the Grey Knights.

Idea 1: Let Brother-Captains choose their Warlord Trait.

The removal of Grand Master Mordrak from the last book (rightfully) ruffled some jimmies; this'd let people play him again. It's also give Brother-Captains a reason for existing, as they're rather massively overshadowed by the Librarian as an HQ choice. It'd be a bit reminiscent of the old Grand Strategy which was also removed for no reason at all.

Idea 2: A new anti-MC gun.



The Grey Knights lack a decent way of dealing with Monstrous and Gargantuan Creatures, so I'd thought I'd add something to fix that. At the same time, I didn't want the weapon to be the best option against everything, so I made it scale with Wounds. Against Infantry, one S5 shot isn't too impressive even if it's AP1 (even S7 AP1 is essentially a Plasma Pistol without Gets Hot! against 2-wound models.), and against Vehicles you could, in theory, get an AP1 pen if you're shooting AV10, but that's getting into Hail Mary territory.

I know ideas come and go, and I don't know why, but I think its funny that you came up with a serious name for the gun's special rule and not the gun itself. Any reason its only a pistol?

Also, I think GMs and Bro Captains should have EW. Picking Warlord Traits is fine.

 Powerfisting wrote:

Also, I think GMs and Bro Captains should have EW.

There's a GIANT problem with the ID mechanic itself. It makes not taking a bike on your dude for AT LEAST T5 not worth it, and even then you're probably still adding the Gorgon's Chain and Shield Eternal.

I've suggested, more than once, replacing ID on double toughness with some kind of generic overkill rule.

Overkill: If a model suffers a wound from a weapon with Strength greater than or equal to double that model's Toughness, that model loses two wounds from an unsaved wound instead of one. Models with Eternal Warrior ignore the effects of Overkill on a die roll of a 4+, losing only a single wound. This effect is in addition to any saves, Feel No Pain, Reanimation Protocols or similar effects.

This would leave actual Instant Death alone, but krak missiles still gib Crisis Suits or Paladins. Importantly, they don't instagib medium Tyranids, Captains and other such things with W3 or more.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, a possible name for that pistol: Soulrender bolt pistol.

I thought of "Soulflayer","Soulshredder", "Destructor" or such, but thought they had a bit too much of a Dark Eldar-ish flair.

Forgehammer tenatively is using something like:

If strength > target's toughness by 3 or more points, then on a roll of 6 to-wound, the target may not take FNP against a failed save, and the target loses an additional D3 wounds.

For each point of strength greater, the critical threshold is modified by 1 more. (So a S10 attack inflicts Overkill vs T6 on a 5+, etc). Preferred Enemy or other powers can modify this crit threshold further (So a Hammerhead Railgun in a Farsight Enclave inflicts Overkill versus a T6 Warboss on a 4+, etc).

Another lazy idea for ID could be: The target loses a wound for every 3 points your Strength + D6 beats your opponent's toughness. (So a Lascannon rolling a 6 would inflict 3 wounds on a Riptide, since 9+6=15, 15 - 6 = 9, divided by 3 is 3.

Personally I think certain units like Strike and Purgation Squads need to be addressed as they are almost completely overshadowed by their competition of GKT and Dreadknights respectively.

Purgation Squads should lose Night Vision (which really does almost nothing anyways) for either built-in relentless or access to the Astral Aim psychic power, WC1 Blessing, Targets the unit and allows them to double the range of the ranged weapons they are wielding, in the case of template weapons like the incinerators they gain torrent instead. This way they can still move and shoot psycannons and have decent range or entrench themselves on a part of the battlefield and let loose with full salvoes of psycannon fire from the backfield that no other unit can do.

Strike Squads need a way to compete with the cost efficiency of the GKT, which in my case makes me think that they have some built in rule that allows them to re-roll failed reserve rolls and/or can come in on turn one. Make them the ones first to the fray with the GKT coming in as extra muscle.

GK Dreadnoughts should seriously come with some sort of built in invuln. save like the dreadknight for what he costs. Buff him up to 4A like the vanilla/DA dexes and now his sanctuary isn't useless and he has some measure of protection that makes him decent for his points.

Does anyone else feel like Halberds should have been effectively force axes? I hardly see them taken compared to falchions and daemon hammers.

 Grimskul wrote:
Personally I think certain units like Strike and Purgation Squads need to be addressed as they are almost completely overshadowed by their competition of GKT and Dreadknights respectively.

Purgation Squads should lose Night Vision (which really does almost nothing anyways) for either built-in relentless or access to the Astral Aim psychic power, WC1 Blessing, Targets the unit and allows them to double the range of the ranged weapons they are wielding, in the case of template weapons like the incinerators they gain torrent instead. This way they can still move and shoot psycannons and have decent range or entrench themselves on a part of the battlefield and let loose with full salvoes of psycannon fire from the backfield that no other unit can do.

Strike Squads need a way to compete with the cost efficiency of the GKT, which in my case makes me think that they have some built in rule that allows them to re-roll failed reserve rolls and/or can come in on turn one. Make them the ones first to the fray with the GKT coming in as extra muscle.

GK Dreadnoughts should seriously come with some sort of built in invuln. save like the dreadknight for what he costs. Buff him up to 4A like the vanilla/DA dexes and now his sanctuary isn't useless and he has some measure of protection that makes him decent for his points.

Does anyone else feel like Halberds should have been effectively force axes? I hardly see them taken compared to falchions and daemon hammers.

I've seen people talk about giving Strike Squads Infiltrate so you can position teleport homers for terminators, but that makes them kind of a one- trick- pony.

Buffing GK Dreadnoughts to 4A, maybe a 5++ invuln would be fine IMO

Honestly the 5th edition halberds were a neat little gem IMO because they were one of the last things that had a unique mechanic. I'd like to do something like that, but I can't think of anything that wouldn't turn them into auto takes again.

Brother-Captain and Grandmaster add or subtract 1 from all reserve rolls (Friendly and enemy!)
Brotherhood Champion may take a Personal Teleporter
Castellan Crowe gains Smash
Paladins gain It Will Not Die
Dreadnaughts replace Sanctuary with Forewarning
Strike Squads gain Interceptor
Interceptors gain Infiltrate
Rhinos and Razorbacks gain Scout
Purgation Squads replace Hammerhand with Perfect Timing
Land Raiders gain Forewarning

The previous post brings up an excellent point: Crowe is literally useless. If he had Rending on a 4+ like he used to, maybe he'd be occasionally used.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
The previous post brings up an excellent point: Crowe is literally useless. If he had Rending on a 4+ like he used to, maybe he'd be occasionally used.

He's another source of nova explod-y goodness, he's ML2 and not in Terminator Armour, and he gets Smash in challenges.

And guess what?

He still sucks.

 Quickjager wrote:
And guess what?

He still sucks.

Which is not synonymous with "litereally useless".

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
The previous post brings up an excellent point: Crowe is literally useless. If he had Rending on a 4+ like he used to, maybe he'd be occasionally used.

He's another source of nova explod-y goodness, he's ML2 and not in Terminator Armour, and he gets Smash in challenges.

He's 175 points for two whole wounds, T4, no EW, no strong or unusual saves and a melee weapon that is literally worse than a Hormagaunt's.

He's absolute, unmitigated trash.

He needed three wounds, EW, and a 3+ invul to be even considered as a fluffy choice. 4+ Rending and deepstrike to be competitive.

As it is, even if he could use cleansing flame in combat, he would still suck.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
The previous post brings up an excellent point: Crowe is literally useless. If he had Rending on a 4+ like he used to, maybe he'd be occasionally used.

He's another source of nova explod-y goodness, he's ML2 and not in Terminator Armour, and he gets Smash in challenges.

Actually, he IS literally useless.
1. He has NO offensive capabilities outside a challenge, and I don't even think his sword has Force. PLUS most Sergeants will either already die to a challenge or you'll have actual combat monsters that will scoff at him.
2. ML2? Purifiers already have that for 125 instead. You can just add more of them.
3. How is not being in Terminator Armor exactly an advantage? You're either Deep Striking everything and/or allying in Drop Pods.

Yes, Crowe is literally useless.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
The previous post brings up an excellent point: Crowe is literally useless. If he had Rending on a 4+ like he used to, maybe he'd be occasionally used.

He's another source of nova explod-y goodness, he's ML2 and not in Terminator Armour, and he gets Smash in challenges.

Actually, he IS literally useless.
1. He has NO offensive capabilities outside a challenge, and I don't even think his sword has Force. PLUS most Sergeants will either already die to a challenge or you'll have actual combat monsters that will scoff at him.
2. ML2? Purifiers already have that for 125 instead. You can just add more of them.
3. How is not being in Terminator Armor exactly an advantage? You're either Deep Striking everything and/or allying in Drop Pods.

Yes, Crowe is literally useless.

I think someone needs to look up what the word "literally" means then.

At any rate, back to the topic (sort of), what other ways of giving the Grey Knights ranged alternatives to fight GMCs can we think of without making the weapon an auto-take?

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
The previous post brings up an excellent point: Crowe is literally useless. If he had Rending on a 4+ like he used to, maybe he'd be occasionally used.

He's another source of nova explod-y goodness, he's ML2 and not in Terminator Armour, and he gets Smash in challenges.

Actually, he IS literally useless.
1. He has NO offensive capabilities outside a challenge, and I don't even think his sword has Force. PLUS most Sergeants will either already die to a challenge or you'll have actual combat monsters that will scoff at him.
2. ML2? Purifiers already have that for 125 instead. You can just add more of them.
3. How is not being in Terminator Armor exactly an advantage? You're either Deep Striking everything and/or allying in Drop Pods.

Yes, Crowe is literally useless.

I think someone needs to look up what the word "literally" means then.

At any rate, back to the topic (sort of), what other ways of giving the Grey Knights ranged alternatives to fight GMCs can we think of without making the weapon an auto-take?

A multifire Fleshbane weapon. It'd compete with the Psycannon.

Just make the goddamn Psilencer fleshbane. Maybe we wouldn't worry about Wraithknights then.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
The previous post brings up an excellent point: Crowe is literally useless. If he had Rending on a 4+ like he used to, maybe he'd be occasionally used.

He's another source of nova explod-y goodness, he's ML2 and not in Terminator Armour, and he gets Smash in challenges.

Actually, he IS literally useless.
1. He has NO offensive capabilities outside a challenge, and I don't even think his sword has Force. PLUS most Sergeants will either already die to a challenge or you'll have actual combat monsters that will scoff at him.
2. ML2? Purifiers already have that for 125 instead. You can just add more of them.
3. How is not being in Terminator Armor exactly an advantage? You're either Deep Striking everything and/or allying in Drop Pods.

Yes, Crowe is literally useless.

I think someone needs to look up what the word "literally" means then.

I did. He's definitely under the definition of literally useless.
He's got an amazing model though.

If he won't get a Force weapon, the very least his Daemon Sword could do is act like an actual Daemon Weapon: he gets to roll a dice for bonus attacks, and with being so pure he doesn't succumb to the normal result of a 1, and it gets back Rending on a 4+. OR he gets AP3. Either one would work.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

He's got an amazing model though.

If he won't get a Force weapon, the very least his Daemon Sword could do is act like an actual Daemon Weapon: he gets to roll a dice for bonus attacks, and with being so pure he doesn't succumb to the normal result of a 1, and it gets back Rending on a 4+. OR he gets AP3. Either one would work.

He is gorgeous. I've loved that model since I first saw it. Still haven't gotten around to getting it, though. I really like the suggestion of making it work like a Daemon Weapon. I know that Crowe doesn't use the powers of the Blade of Antwyr, but it'd feel fluffy to include the same mechanic used in other Daemon Weapons. In terms of rules, it doesn't resemble what it is at all. Perhaps the variable Attacks just represents Crowe struggling with the blade? High attacks = Crowe being awesome, low attacks = Crowe taking a moment to beat the blade into submission with his mind. Fluffwise, additional attacks aren't what the blade is promising - Daemon Weapons in fluff can do all kinds of crazy things that are far less mundane.

Hmm. Well since it is under his submission, would just an additional D3 attacks each assault phase work? Then add Rending 4+.

He still wouldn't be competitive, but he wouldn't a complete literal waste of points.