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So at our gaming club today we got talking about potential Decurion-style formations the Tyranids might get whenever it is they receive a new codex, and I think there's a lot of potential here. I've had a mess around with some possible combination/rules, trying not to wishlist too much and fit to the kind of thing GW would put out. I'm also aware that a lot of these are similar to the Tyranid Dataslates, but we thought they would be a good basis to start. Let me know what you think.

Edits/clarifications in blue

INTERGALACTIC PREDATORS

This is the "overall" formation that comprises of the usual 1+ Core Formation, 0-3 Command Formations and 0-12 Auxiliary Formations or whatever, and I'd propose the following overarching rule:

Biological Adaptation
At the start of the second, and every subsequent game turn, roll a D6. If the result is equal, or less than, the current turn number, all Tyranids in the Intergalactic Predators Formation gain the Preferred Enemy Special Rule [did think about limiting this to Preferred Enemy against one codex]

CORE FORMATIONS

The Never-ending Horde

1 Hive Tyrant*
0-1 Broods of Tyrant Guard
1-3 Broods of Tyranid Warriors
2-4 Broods chosen from either Termagants or Hormagaunts*
0-3 Ripper Swarm Broods

*Restrictions: The Hive Tyrant may not take the Wings biomorph; Each Termagaunt or Hormagaunt unit in this Formation must contain at least 20 models

Formation Special Rules:
There's no end to them!
If a Termagant, Hormagaunt or Ripper Swarm Brood from this Formation is destroyed, roll a D6. On the roll of a 5+, an identical unit to the one destroyed is immediately placed in ongoing reserve. However, this new unit may not benefit from any deployment special rules that may have been conferred to the original unit. The original unit still counts as destroyed for all game purposes, and the new unit also concedes Kill Points (or any other game condition based on destroyed units) if it too is destroyed. However, the new unit does not count as having been destroyed if it does not enter play before the game ends. Note that these new units may also potentially create further new units. To clarify: "respawned units" concede VP and count in every way as if they were units purchased normally as part of the original army list. Also, by "deployment special rules", I'm talking about things such as Outflank granted by the Hive Commander upgrade for Hive Tyrants

Progenitor Swarm

1-2 Tervigons
2-4 Broods of Termagants* per Tervigon

*Restrictions: Each Termagant Unit must contain at least 20 models.

Formation Special Rules:
Living Incubators
When rolling the 3D6 to determine the number of Termagants spawned, a Tervigon from this Formation may re-roll one of the dice.

Airborne Swarm

1 Hive Tyrant*
1-3 Tyranid Shrike Broods*
2-4 Gargoyles Broods*
0-2 Broods chosen from either Harpies or Hive Crones
0-3 Sky-slasher Swarms Broods

*Restrictions: The Hive Tyrant must purchase the Wings biomorph; Each Gargoyle unit in this Formation must contain at least 20 models.

Formation Special Rules
Blot out the skies
If a Gargoyle unit from this Formation is destroyed, roll a D6. On the roll of a 5+, an identical unit to the one destroyed is immediately placed in ongoing reserve. However, this new unit may not benefit from any deployment special rules that may have been conferred to the original unit. The original unit still counts as destroyed for all game purposes, and the new unit also concedes Kill Points (or any other game condition based on destroyed units) if it too is destroyed. However, the new unit does not count as having been destroyed if it does not enter play before the game ends. Note that these new units may also potentially create further new units.

Co-ordinated Assault
When a Flying Monstrous Creature from this Formation comes on from Reserve, the controlling player can choose to have any remaining Flying Monstrous Creatures in Reserve automatically enter play. If he chooses to do so, on the turn they arrive, these remaining Flying Monstrous Creatures must end their move within 6" of the Flying Monstrous Creature that originally arrived from reserve.

AUXILIARY FORMATIONS

Subterranean Strike

1 Trygon Prime
0-3 Broods chosen from either Trygons or Mawlocs
1-3 Raveners Broods
0-3 Ripper Swarms Broods*
1 Unit of Troop Infantry per Trygon (Prime) (see Tunnel Assault)

Restrictions: All units in this formation must start the game in reserve, and arrive via Deep Strike; Any Ripper Swarm unit must purchase the Deep Strike upgrade

Formation Special Rules:
From Below They Come...
When the Trygon Prime from this formation arrives from reserve, mark the position in which it arrived with a terrain feature a similar size to its base (a small crater is perfect). Whenever a Trygon, Mawloc, Ravener or Ripper Swarm unit arrives from reserve (even on the turn the Trygon Prime arrived), it does not scatter so long as the first model placed is within 6" of the aforementioned terrain feature.

Tunnel Assault
For each Trygon or Trygon Prime in this unit, the Formation may also include a Troops Choice infantry unit of up to twenty models. Before deployment, each such unit must be "paired" with one Trygon or Trygon Prime from this Formation. These Troop Choice units automatically arrive from reserve, using the Deep Strike special rule, the turn immediately after its paired Trygon or Trygon Prime arrives (never before). This unit does not scatter but must be deployed in such a way that the entire unit is within 6" of the terrain feature created by its paired Trygon or Trygon Prime. Any models that cannot be placed due to the proximity of impassable terrain and/or other models are destroyed.

Synaptic Council

3 Units of Zoanthropes*

Restrictions: One unit of Zoanthropes must contain a Neurothrope (and hence be at least 3 models strong)

Formation Special Rules:
Warp Conduits
So long as the Neurothrope in this formation is alive, units in this formation harnesses Warp Charge on the roll of a 3+

Synaptic Links
So long as all units in this formation are within 6" of another unit within this formation, the entire formation gains the following two bonuses: When casting the Warp Blast psychic power, the number of shots fired may be up to the total number of Zoanthropes and Neurothropes in the formation, not just the brood. Any Brood that contributes its model count to this power may not itself manifest Warp Blast/Lance in the same turn. Furthermore, the range of each unit's synapse and Shadow in the Warp special rule is increased by 6"

Shadow Lurkers

0-1 Deathleaper
1-3 Lictor Broods
1-3 Genestealer Broods

Restrictions: None

Formation Special Rules:
Stealthy Approach
Units from this Formation that Inflitrate may be placed anywhere on the board provided that they are at least 6" away from an enemy unit and either wholly within a terrain feature or out of Line of Sight of any enemy models. Furthermore, if a unit from this Formation infliltrates , it gains the Shrouded special rule until it takes any action (voluntary or otherwise, and including using the Cloak and Shadows rule), at which point it loses this special rule.

Cloaks and Shadows
If a unit from this formation ends its move wholly within a terrain feature that does not contain any enemy models, the controlling player may immediately remove the unit and replace it on the board so that it is wholly within a different terrain feature that also does not contain any enemy models. Any unit that does so may not take any further action that turn.

Toxic Shroud Swarm

1-3 Venomthrope Broods*
1-3 Tyranid Warrior Broods*
2-5 Broods chosen from either Ripper Swarms, Termagants, Hormagaunts or Genestealers*

Restrictions: Each Venomthrope Brood must contain 3 models; Every brood that can do so must purchase the Toxin Sacs biomorph

Formation Special Rules:
Noxious Cloud
So long as units in this formation are within 6" of a Venomthrope Brood from this formation, they gain the following benefits: They gain the Stealth special rule, count as being armed with defensive grenades, and their Toxin Sacs confer to them the Poisoned (3+) special rule, rather than simply Poisoned. [I also thought that, instead of stealth, enemy units in base contact with these units could take hits at the end of each combat phase, or that each unit counted as being armed with the Toxic Miasma biomorph]

Rampaging Behemoths

2-3 Carnifex Broods

Restrictions: None

Formation Special Rules:
Unstoppable Momentum
When a unit from this Formation destroys an enemy unit in combat, it gains the Fleet special rule. For each subsequent unit it destroys, each Carnifex in that unit gains +1 attack. Furthermore, if a Carnifex Brood from this Formation contains two or more Carnifexes, the Carnifexes' Living Battering Ram special rule inflicts 2D3 Hammer of Wrath Attacks, rather than D3.

Artillery Node

This one is exactly the same as in the Rising Leviathan Dataslate, but I'd amend the unit composition to 0-3 Broods chosen from Exocrine or Tyrannofex, and to include a 1-3 Broods of Hive Guard

--------------------------------

So, kudos if you read all of that! I'm hoping to come up with some ideas for the units I haven't yet included, but for now I feel that's a substantial meal of food for thought

Let me know what you think, and any changes you think would work well. Feel free to throw your own ideas around as well, and we'll see if we can get a nice discussion/brainstorm about what the next Tyranid Codex could/should theoretically bring in terms of Decurion-Style Formations.

Thanks for reading!

Actually came to this section after a discussion in the big Tyranid tactic thread got me thinking about some possible genestealer improvements... good thing i checked for a similar thread!

I havent read all of your formations but was drawn to the genestealer/lictor one. I do like the inclusion of shrouded until they take action... it's fluffy, makes sense, and striking scorpions already have it so why cant genestealers?? The hopping from one unit of terrain to another is also a really cool rule which i think will work well in game.

I also like the Venomthrope formation... that's pretty cool and not the kind of formation Id immediately think of creating for Nids!

I like these! A few thoughts:

Intergalactic Predators:

Groovy.

Never-Ending Horde:
I like it. Why not allow rippers to "respawn" as well though? Also, what "deployment special rules" are respawned units not granted exactly? 'Cause gaunts don't normally have deepstrike, and infiltrating seems like it obviously wouldn't work fora respawned unit. I'm also unclear on how kill points work with this formation. does a unit only respawn once at most and only grant a kill point on its second death? Can it respawn infinite times but simply doesn't grant a kill point the first time? I'm afraid I'm just not clear on this.

Progenitor Swarm:
Snazzy. I'm a bit put off by the sheer number of dollars worth of models these core formations require though. Aren't we looking at least $120 for the gaunts needed in these formations alone?

Airborne Swarm:
I like it. I'm not sure FMCs need help coming in together, but it's nice to have.

Subterranean Strike:
I love burrower 'nids! I really like From Below They Come. I'm afraid I'm not fond of Tunnel Assault though. A few gripes I have with it:

* You're still looking at coming in on turn 3 at the earliest
* You haven't clarified that the untis *don't* still come in from reserves on turns before its paired big bug arrives, so you still have that problem where they arrive with or before their big bug thus preventing them from using the tunnel.
*It's pretty easy for your opponent to basically auto-kill your 20 bug unit by tossing a few guys in their "drop zone."
*The "drop zone" limitation seems unnecessary. Why not jut let them come in from reserves from the tunnel ala the old webway portal rules?

I'd really like for this formation to basically just let you say, "these units are coming in through my tunnels, and they won't arrive until the tunnels are on the table. Also, my bugs that can dig treat the trygon prime's tunnel as one big homing beacon."

Your bugs get to cross the board without dying on the way there, but your opponent still gets to shoot at this clustered up swarm after haing a turn to dakka at whateve poor souls you had to put on the table turn 1, so this doesn't seem OP to me at a glance.

Synaptic Council:
So would that potentially be 9 warp lances coming out of this formation after harnessing on a 3+? Hmm. It's expensive to take that many zoanthropes, but that's a scary amount of psychic dakka. Isn't that potentially 27 warp lance shots a turn? Might be fine due to the price tag, but I'm worried it may be over the top.

Shadow Lurkers:
I like it, but it could use tweaking. Infiltrating within 6" of the enemy is usually a bad idea because they'll shoot your relatively squishy bugs with all the dakka, and then they'll get first turn assaults with whatever unit want them. Similar shenanigans kind of work for existing genestealer formations because you can take a bajillion MSU 'stealer units thus mitigating the damage your opponent can do.

The way you have Stealthy Approach worded, it seems like you *have* to infiltrate within 6" to benefit from their scorpion-style shrouded. I like the shrouded-until-murder-time rule, and I like the *option* of deploying within 6" for those rare times where I want to take advantage of it, but I don't like the idea of giving all my opponent's flamers a shot at those poor infiltrators to benefit from it.

Cloak and Shadows is fluffy and fun, especially for lictors, but this makes units from this formation one of the most mobile things in the game even if their attacks are sort of staggered for a turn. Also, if I *don't* have to infiltrate within 6" of an enemy unit to get my shrouded, I will pretty much always just "infiltrate" in my own deployment zone's terrain to get a 2+ cover save going, then do horror-movie-monster-teleport maneuvers turn 1. Which is cool to think about, but possibly too good.

Toxic Shroud:
Why not add rippers to the list of options with gaunts, and stealers? I like the bit about improving adrenal glands; it gives you more bang for your buck on an upgrade that normally isn't worth it. I might prefer to see something like the toxic miasma suggestion rather than stealth just because stealth + shrouded on the whole army feels like a bit much and because it lets your venomthropes contribute something new rather than just making their already formidable cover save buff even buffier.

Also, why limit your number of venomthrope broods to two? Two is probably fine, but if people really loved fielding three units of them in their combined arms detachment, and if this formation is your only way to really insert them into your army... This is a pretty minor nitpick.

Rampaging Behemoths:
I like it. How would you feel about making it 2d3 hammer of wraths or d3+2 instead of 1d6? 1d6 is fine, but also susceptible to rolling 1, 2, or 3 despite the fact that you bothered taking the formation.

Overall, I like what you've done here! My main concern is that the core formations require you use a lot of lacklustre models that cost a lot of cash. I also worry that the "respawn" rules in those formations don't really fix the problems our little bugs have. A respawning gaunts are nice if your opponent just happens to play a list that drops a lot of units in your back field for them to clean up, but gunlines will still keep those squads from being terribly relevant regardless of whether or not they respawn. Gunlines will still want to shoot your little bugs to death to keep them from doing bad things to their infantry, but they were doing that already. Respawning those units at your own board edge doesn't solve the problem that they still won't reach combat for the rest of the game after respawning or the problem that you have to dedicate a synapse baby sitter to making sure they don't go silly after they respawn. :(

And speaking of little bugs, I'd like to put this thought into your brain: one mechanic for gaunts that I've seen in various forms floating around these forums is the ability to pick apart monstrous creatures and vehicles with large numbers. Mores specifically, I've seen rules to the effect of, "For every X gaunts in a unit, you may trade those gaunts' normal attacks for a single strength 10 AP - attack" or some such thing. The idea is that they're picking away at every possible nook and cranny on that pesky tank or wraith knight, slowly tearing it apart through sheer weight of numbers even though their puny little strength 3 couldn't normally harm such things.

Hive Fleet Nom wrote:Actually came to this section after a discussion in the big Tyranid tactic thread got me thinking about some possible genestealer improvements... good thing i checked for a similar thread!

I havent read all of your formations but was drawn to the genestealer/lictor one. I do like the inclusion of shrouded until they take action... it's fluffy, makes sense, and striking scorpions already have it so why cant genestealers?? The hopping from one unit of terrain to another is also a really cool rule which i think will work well in game.

I also like the Venomthrope formation... that's pretty cool and not the kind of formation Id immediately think of creating for Nids!

Thanks for the comment! Yeah, I did steal that shrouded rule from the Striking Scorpions Glad you like the formations though, have a read of the others!

@Wyldhunt, thanks for taking the time to come up with such a lengthy, constructive reply! My responses below:

Wyldhunt wrote:I like these! A few thoughts:

Intergalactic Predators:

Groovy.

I think it is very groovy, and I'm glad you think so too. However, this was one of the ones that I thought might be a bit OP. Preferred Enemy is a good rule and... army wide? I wasn't sure. But then I did think that, as Marines get army-wide ATSKNF (another good rule), why can't Nids have army-wide PE.

Wyldhunt wrote:
Never-Ending Horde:
I like it. Why not allow rippers to "respawn" as well though? Also, what "deployment special rules" are respawned units not granted exactly? 'Cause gaunts don't normally have deepstrike, and infiltrating seems like it obviously wouldn't work fora respawned unit. I'm also unclear on how kill points work with this formation. does a unit only respawn once at most and only grant a kill point on its second death? Can it respawn infinite times but simply doesn't grant a kill point the first time? I'm afraid I'm just not clear on this.

Yeah, good point, I guess Rippers could respawn too. By "deployment special rules" I was specifically thinking of Outflank granted by the Hive Commander upgrade for the Hive Tyrants. So, you can outflank a unit from this formation using that upgrade but, if that unit were to be destroyed, any unit it respawns would not be able to benefit from it. I guess though I was also thinking about Tyrannocytes too, thought that is different.

As for KP, any respawned units would indeed concede a KP, as well as count for any rule which has interaction with the death of units (bonus VPs/attacks etc for killing units, for example). If I'm honest, I'm not really sure of any examples of this, but I wanted to make sure that the respawned units were not really "free" units, and would count in every way as if they'd started as a normal unit purchased from your army list. I will admit I had difficulty expressing that in a rules-like manner.

Wyldhunt wrote:
Progenitor Swarm:
Snazzy. I'm a bit put off by the sheer number of dollars worth of models these core formations require though. Aren't we looking at least $120 for the gaunts needed in these formations alone?

Dollars? Why, that's exactly why it's something GW could actually include It is true the model count is pretty huge though... maybe a "Nidzilla" core formation is needed?

Wyldhunt wrote:
Airborne Swarm:
I like it. I'm not sure FMCs need help coming in together, but it's nice to have.

Yeah, it's not exactly groundbreaking (is that a pun?) but I have screwed over a few times by one Flyrant arriving each turn, when it would have been so useful for both/all of them to arrive at the same time, so it is a nice bonus.

Wyldhunt wrote:
Subterranean Strike:
I love burrower 'nids! I really like From Below They Come. I'm afraid I'm not fond of Tunnel Assault though. A few gripes I have with it:

* You're still looking at coming in on turn 3 at the earliest
* You haven't clarified that the untis *don't* still come in from reserves on turns before its paired big bug arrives, so you still have that problem where they arrive with or before their big bug thus preventing them from using the tunnel.
*It's pretty easy for your opponent to basically auto-kill your 20 bug unit by tossing a few guys in their "drop zone."
*The "drop zone" limitation seems unnecessary. Why not jut let them come in from reserves from the tunnel ala the old webway portal rules?

I'd really like for this formation to basically just let you say, "these units are coming in through my tunnels, and they won't arrive until the tunnels are on the table. Also, my bugs that can dig treat the trygon prime's tunnel as one big homing beacon."

Your bugs get to cross the board without dying on the way there, but your opponent still gets to shoot at this clustered up swarm after haing a turn to dakka at whateve poor souls you had to put on the table turn 1, so this doesn't seem OP to me at a glance.

Yeah, your penultimate sentence does sum-up exactly the rule so much better. I'll edit it to make it clearer. So you think that arriving within 6" of the tunnel (that is a homing beacon, right?) is better? I guess it would be, I just thought it'd make more sense if they appeared on the tunnel itself.

As for arriving at Turn 3 at the latest, I don't think it's a huge issue. Sure, it may be inconvenient, but it's a small trade-off for what is, effectively, a free way to include a Troops infantry unit in the Decurion formation and have it no-scatter deepstrike pretty much anywhere on the board, probably surrounded by loads of big beasties

Wyldhunt wrote:
Synaptic Council:
So would that potentially be 9 warp lances coming out of this formation after harnessing on a 3+? Hmm. It's expensive to take that many zoanthropes, but that's a scary amount of psychic dakka. Isn't that potentially 27 warp lance shots a turn? Might be fine due to the price tag, but I'm worried it may be over the top.

Well I think, as they're a Council of Psykers, each brood can only cast Warp Lance once but, as of the WD update giving Zoanthrope Broods the option to include up to 6 models, that is the potential of 3 Assault 18 Warp Lances... Yeah, this was the other one I thought might be OP. Still, the SM Librarian Conclave can harness on a 2+ right, and has access to much better powers... And is probably cheaper; like you say, it's a lot of points to include all those Zoanthropes.

But yes, perhaps this needs limiting somewhat. Perhaps I could say that if any Brood "contributes" to the number of Warp Lances/Blasts fired, that Brood can't fire the power again that phase. Still, I guess that could potentially be an Assault 18 Warp Lance/Blast. Still, 18 Zoanthropes are 900 points, so not exactly cheap...

Wyldhunt wrote:
Shadow Lurkers:
I like it, but it could use tweaking. Infiltrating within 6" of the enemy is usually a bad idea because they'll shoot your relatively squishy bugs with all the dakka, and then they'll get first turn assaults with whatever unit want them. Similar shenanigans kind of work for existing genestealer formations because you can take a bajillion MSU 'stealer units thus mitigating the damage your opponent can do.

The way you have Stealthy Approach worded, it seems like you *have* to infiltrate within 6" to benefit from their scorpion-style shrouded. I like the shrouded-until-murder-time rule, and I like the *option* of deploying within 6" for those rare times where I want to take advantage of it, but I don't like the idea of giving all my opponent's flamers a shot at those poor infiltrators to benefit from it.

Cloak and Shadows is fluffy and fun, especially for lictors, but this makes units from this formation one of the most mobile things in the game even if their attacks are sort of staggered for a turn. Also, if I *don't* have to infiltrate within 6" of an enemy unit to get my shrouded, I will pretty much always just "infiltrate" in my own deployment zone's terrain to get a 2+ cover save going, then do horror-movie-monster-teleport maneuvers turn 1. Which is cool to think about, but possibly too good.

Yeah, you don't have to Infiltrate within 6" of an enemy unit to get Shrouded, you just have to infiltrate. I also wrote it wrong, I was meant to say a unit can infiltrate so long as it is more than 6" away. I'll also edit something in to clarify that using the Cloak and Shadows rule would count as an "action" for the purposes of retaining Shrouded or not.

I don't think Cloak and Shadows is too powerful. Remember that the terrain feature has to be completely unoccupied, which does limit it somewhat. Also, the opponent would get a whole turn of shooting (or running away from) these very close-combat orientated units. It's certainly not going to catch, and isn't going to be as fast as, say, Eldar Jetbikes. It is a good rule (both in game and fluff-wise) and makes for some powerful objective-grabbing capabilities. I think it's a well needed buff to units that are pretty bad in the current codex, without making them OP.

Wyldhunt wrote:
Toxic Shroud:
Why not add rippers to the list of options with gaunts, and stealers? I like the bit about improving adrenal glands; it gives you more bang for your buck on an upgrade that normally isn't worth it. I might prefer to see something like the toxic miasma suggestion rather than stealth just because stealth + shrouded on the whole army feels like a bit much and because it lets your venomthropes contribute something new rather than just making their already formidable cover save buff even buffier.

Also, why limit your number of venomthrope broods to two? Two is probably fine, but if people really loved fielding three units of them in their combined arms detachment, and if this formation is your only way to really insert them into your army... This is a pretty minor nitpick.

Yeah, I agree with you about the toxic miasma thing actually. Stealth/Shrouded is a little samey. Would you prefer to see a one-use Toxic Miasma or say that any unit in base contact with a unit from the formation (that's within 6" of one of the Venomthrope Broods) takes hits at the I1 step? And yeah, good point, no reason not to include rippers or another unit of Venomthropes.

Wyldhunt wrote:
Rampaging Behemoths:
I like it. How would you feel about making it 2d3 hammer of wraths or d3+2 instead of 1d6? 1d6 is fine, but also susceptible to rolling 1, 2, or 3 despite the fact that you bothered taking the formation.

I did think about 2D3 actually, but I thought this might actually be a bit too powerful? I do appreciate that consistency is important if you've gone to the effort of using the formation.

Wyldhunt wrote:
Overall, I like what you've done here! My main concern is that the core formations require you use a lot of lacklustre models that cost a lot of cash. I also worry that the "respawn" rules in those formations don't really fix the problems our little bugs have. A respawning gaunts are nice if your opponent just happens to play a list that drops a lot of units in your back field for them to clean up, but gunlines will still keep those squads from being terribly relevant regardless of whether or not they respawn. Gunlines will still want to shoot your little bugs to death to keep them from doing bad things to their infantry, but they were doing that already. Respawning those units at your own board edge doesn't solve the problem that they still won't reach combat for the rest of the game after respawning or the problem that you have to dedicate a synapse baby sitter to making sure they don't go silly after they respawn. :(

And speaking of little bugs, I'd like to put this thought into your brain: one mechanic for gaunts that I've seen in various forms floating around these forums is the ability to pick apart monstrous creatures and vehicles with large numbers. Mores specifically, I've seen rules to the effect of, "For every X gaunts in a unit, you may trade those gaunts' normal attacks for a single strength 10 AP - attack" or some such thing. The idea is that they're picking away at every possible nook and cranny on that pesky tank or wraith knight, slowly tearing it apart through sheer weight of numbers even though their puny little strength 3 couldn't normally harm such things.

Thanks!

I appreciate the point about backfield reinforcements not being terribly useful, but it's possible that they will come on mid-game. Also, by the time they're likely to come on, hopefully the other Nids will be wreaking havoc in the enemy gunline so these reinforcements won't simply be shot as they arrive. I guess there is the possibility that the Nids have failed to damage said gunline, resulting in this situation (and a big win/big loss kind of play) but, to be honest - and apologies for using the C-word - I like the "cinematic" outcome of the enemy either being overwhelmed by the Nid swarm or heroically repelling wave after wave. Plus, I feel like having reinforcements come on from other board edges is a bit too powerful (perhaps there could be an upgrade/warlord trait/unit/artefact that allows some units to do this though?)

As for the gaunts overwhelming big units, I do quite like that, especially seeing how tough it is for Nids to deal with stuff like wraithknights. Would you have this as a formation rule, or just a straight-up rule for gaunts?

Anyway, thanks a lot for your comments!

Keep 'em coming guys! (Nids pun?)

@The Shadow:

I like the changes! The blue is hard to read on my screen, but I like the changes.

Preferred Enemy:
While PE is a good rule, the formations your "decurion" calls for are sort of limited in how they can use it. Many of the bugs you've covered so far mostly only work in close combat, so the Preferred Enemy bonuses won't come into play until turn 3+ in many games. Termagaunts have some shooting, but it's mostly just low-powered anti-infantry shooting. The scariest ranged stuff 'nids have is the twin-linked brian leech devourer, and that's already twin-linked. Letting it reroll 1s is nice, but not amazing. Consider the bonuses granted by the various guardian core formations in the eldar codex. So with that in mind, PE as an army-wide rule seems like a nice bonus for once you actually reach assault and a nice way to boost normally lacklustre shooting guns. I say this late at night without puttinga ton of thought into it, so take it all with a grain of salt.

If I were to rework the 'nid 'dex from the ground up, I'd like to give them a chapter tactics equivalent representing different types of biomorphs. Something like:

*Army-wide stealth while in terrain of a certain type to represent evolved camouflage. Things with stealth gain Shrouded in that terrain instead.
* Army-wide fleet to represent an evolved emphasis on speed.
* Army-wide +1 Toughness to MCs to support bugzilla armies.
* Preferred Enemy (faction) to represent their weapon biomorphs being fine-tuned to deal with whatever they've been fighting and eating recently.

That sort of thing. That's just me rambling and wish-listing though.

Respawn Mechanics:
I like your changes, but I want to throw a couple other ideas I've seen before just to run them by you.

* Respawning units can outflank. If you die on turn 2 and arrive on turn 3, you're assaulting with such units on turn 4 at the earliest, and that's assuming the enemy doesn't rekill you. The fluff here is that the 'nids are so numerous they've already surrounded you and are coming in from all sides (except your board edge).

* Gaunts, hormagaunts, and rippers aren't worth kill points and don't reward victory points when slain (in maelstrom or whatever). This doesn't directly give you that "high body count" feeling, but it does make the little gribblies into something you don't mind losing quite as much. Your opponent still has to deal with them to avoid being swamped, but he also has your big bugs to worry about. Which is a nice way to confuse their target priority and make you feel like you can take a large number of troop units without handing your opponent easy kills. Lets you do a kill point denial army without having to take blobs or flyrants. Represents the "these bugs are just tiny extensions of the hive mind's will; we can kill as many as we want and it will never make a difference," sort of feeling.

* Better biomorphs for little bugs. Things like self-destructing gaunts that act sort of like bomb squigs for the unit or bio-electric gaunts that can inflict a haywire attack for every 10 bodies involved in an assault. Currently, MCs can deal with vehicles, MCs, etc. Little bugs mostly just deal with infantry, and don't necessarily do so better than MCs. Giving them more/better/unique upgrade options incentivizes taking them.

Regarding the wording on respawning horde units, why not just change the relevant line to something like, "Respawning units always arrive from normal reserves (as opposed to deep strike reserves, outflanking, etc.)"?

Synaptic Council:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure you potentially get 27 lance shots if you take three 3-bug squads. It's one lance per zoanthrope, right? So 3 for each squad is 9 shots per squad. 9 shots from each of the 3 squads is 27. If you can take squads of up to 6 zoanthropes, you're looking at 18 shots with a successful casting of the power. If each of your 3 squads casts it successfully, that's 54 warp lances. Or am I misreading something?

Still pretty expensive to pull off, especially since zoanthropes aren't *that* durable, but possibly scary enough not to matter. Granted, you're still only killing up to 3 targets a turn with such a formation assuming you don't get weirdly lucky scatters.

Toxic Shroud:
I'm not sure about the exactly implementation. I like the idea of it being a large cloud of toxins that aren't especially potent but are felt across the table. But that just leads to lots of rolling without much of an effect. As this potentially affectsa very large area, maybe just have enemy units within 12" of a venomthrope at the end of each assault phase make a Toughness test or suffer one wound for each point by which the test is failed with no saves allowed? So you aren't going to kill much with it, but you're only rolling once for each enemy squad, and the effect is potentially pretty far reaching. Just a passing thought.


Rampaging Behemoths:
I personally find it annoying when I go out of my way to get a certain benefit and then don't actually see it come into play. Like paying for a Gift of Mutation and getting nothing form it, buying anti-air missiles and then finding my opponent has no flyers, etc. 1d6 instead of the normal number of HoWraths is probably fine, but I don't think it would break things to up that number either.

Usefulness of Respawned Units:
I personally just don't see respawned units being all that useful. You can use them to scoop up objectivesin the back and mid fields, but that's only reliable if you leave a synapse babysitter with them. There's a good chance they won't see combat after respawning unless the enemy comes towards you (which, granted, they might). Say your opponent stays roughly at their deployment zone in a Dawn of War or Hammer and Anvil game. That's a lot of ground for those little bugs to cover before they'll get to do anything. Then again, maybe this is a great way to mop up all those bloodied-but-not-beaten units that sometimes litter the board at the end of a game. Worth playtesting, for sure!

Overwhelming Big Units:
Ideally, I'd like to redesign most of the 'nid codex from the ground up, and I think a rule like this would be perfectly reasonable to give to gaunts. Making it a formation rule is probably easier to talk your opponents into, but I don't think it would be unreasonable to simply make it a default rule for gaunts, gargoyles, and maybe rippers.

How about something making use of the Tyranid "feeder" organisms?

Rippers, Sky-slashers, Pyrovores, Haruspexes, Mawlocs

The Valdeor book has them turn up from reserve and reduce enemy morale because the prospect of the world being devoured is so frightening... can we do better?

@ Wlydhunt, thanks for the detailed reply again.

I do really like your other changes, like chapter tactics and better biomorphs for the little bugs - which I'd incorporate were I to do a fan edition of the Tyranid Codex (again) - but for now I'll try and stick with potential Decurion Formations that we can use with the existing book (because, hey, you never know, some people may want to try them out!) And I'll change the edit colour when I make more changes

As far as respawning goes, you do make a good case about Outflanking and not conceding Kill/Maelstrom Points. I guess the former isn't that groundbreaking, and certainly would be good tactically. Perhaps we could say that on a 6, the unit can outflank too? Or is that getting too complicated? As for not conceding points, I'm still worried that people can take minimalist squads that are constantly recycled and killing stuff whilst never giving up kill points. If people take a two Never Ending Hordes, that's a decent sized army with potentially a lot of new models comping on, with only a dozen or so KP max to give away. I guess that's not exactly ground breaking, but surely the opponent should get some recognition for repelling a second or subsequent wave of gribbilies? You do make a good point about them not being that useful, either. Xyptc (and others), what do you think?

For Synaptic Council, I think a Psychic Conclave (or whatever it's called) can only cast each power once, as if it were a single power. So no matter how many Zoanthropes were in the Brood, that Brood would only be able to cast it once, leading to a maximum 3 Warp Blast/Lances. True, that's still a lot, but it does limit it somewhat.

I also don't think that Toxic Shroud would require too much rolling, probably more if it was based on being within 12" of the Venomthrope. We could say that all units under the "cloud" count as charging through difficult terrain? That requires pretty much no rolling. I also don't think a one-off toxic miasma or a dangerous terrain test would be too much either - not much is going to be charging them at any one time, surely?

@Xyptc: Yeah, a Feeder organism is the next step, and I'll think about it over the next few days. Reducing Morale is a decent idea, but I would perhaps say that their biggest challenge is making it into combat, so maybe something to help with that? Also, would you include a Dimachaeron in that formation?

 The Shadow wrote:

@Xyptc: Yeah, a Feeder organism is the next step, and I'll think about it over the next few days. Reducing Morale is a decent idea, but I would perhaps say that their biggest challenge is making it into combat, so maybe something to help with that? Also, would you include a Dimachaeron in that formation?

I don't think I'd class a Dimachaeron as a "feeder" organism. You'd be looking at Haruspex, Rippers, Skyslashers, Pyrovores and Mawlocs mostly.

Give them all Rage, Rampage and score a VP if they wipe a unit out in CC, or force an enemy to flee and choose not to Sweeping Advance (to represent them stopping to feed)? Automatically get a 6 on the IB: Feed table?

Xyptc wrote:

 The Shadow wrote:

@Xyptc: Yeah, a Feeder organism is the next step, and I'll think about it over the next few days. Reducing Morale is a decent idea, but I would perhaps say that their biggest challenge is making it into combat, so maybe something to help with that? Also, would you include a Dimachaeron in that formation?

I don't think I'd class a Dimachaeron as a "feeder" organism. You'd be looking at Haruspex, Rippers, Skyslashers, Pyrovores and Mawlocs mostly.

Give them all Rage, Rampage and score a VP if they wipe a unit out in CC, or force an enemy to flee and choose not to Sweeping Advance (to represent them stopping to feed)? Automatically get a 6 on the IB: Feed table?

Had a think about this today, this is what I came up with.

1 Tyranid Warrior Brood*
0-2 Haruspexes
0-3 Pyrovore Broods

Restrictions: The Tyranid Warrior Brood from this Formation may not select any equipment from the [whatever the ranged/heavy weapons biomorphs are called] and must also replace their devourer with a weapon from the Basic Melee-Weapon Biomorph list, at the normal cost, despite not normally being able to do so.

Formation Special Rules: Furious Charge, Rage

Voracious Hunger
As long as a unit from the Formation can see an enemy unit, in the Assault Phase, instead of declaring a charge, it may move D6" straight towards an enemy unit within its line of sight.

I did also think of getting rid of the Warrior Brood, getting rid of rage, and saying that each unit can re-roll on the IB chart if it fails an IB test and, should they fail, they don't have to charge the NEAREST enemy unit, just any eligible unit of their choice. Thoughts?