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I have a quick question dakka

Is this terrible, good, great or overkill?

A land raider redeemer, housing Vulkan with a squad of 10 sternguard, equipped with 2 heavy flamers and 4 combi-flamers

I was thinking of running this in a 1500pt game

Cheers

You generally want an assault unit in a LRR. While the sternguard can mix it up a bit, they are not the best tool for the job, you want them shooting. A 35 point drop pod would work much better then a 250 point tank.

If you want to charge, you can’t use the special ammo bolters. So why have SG?

What part of this combo do you like more, the LRR or the SG? If you want to keep the sternguard, drop down to a 9 man squad to make room for Vulkan and put them in a pod. If you want a burning box of pain and death rolling across the table, consider a more CC oriented squad

Well, I wasn't considering charging from it, more disembark and shoot a wall of flame into the enemy ahead. I know it has the capability of allowing units to charge from it but I wasn't going to with the sternguard. I just thought it was very Salamander. Perhaps replace them with hammer/shield termies while I pod the Sternies and Vulkan? Cos I like the idea of both units

I concur with Nevelon. If you want to abuse the Salamander Flamer rule it's much better to use them in a drop pod. The Redeemer's flamestorm cannons, while powerful, don't justify buying them just to use it.

Also you may want to go with Combi-Meltas instead. Vulkan buffs those and having 3 heavy flamers with rerolls should be more than enough to cook anything short of terminators in one round of shooting.

 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:
I concur with Nevelon. If you want to abuse the Salamander Flamer rule it's much better to use them in a drop pod. The Redeemer's flamestorm cannons, while powerful, don't justify buying them just to use it.

Also you may want to go with Combi-Meltas instead. Vulkan buffs those and having 3 heavy flamers with rerolls should be more than enough to cook anything short of terminators in one round of shooting.

Good point about the combi-meltas. I'll do that. I like the idea of rolling around in a redeemer though :( kinda bored of drop pods. But there is a reason drop pods are used in every marine army I guess

I see where you are coming from. And the imagery it generates is quite nice; bunch of marines charging down the ramp, burning everything

Land raiders are expensive. Massively overpriced in some opinions. One of the big complaints about LRs in general is that you pay for all the options, but only use a few. You want to move up and deliver your cargo, but if you move too fast, you can’t effectively use the guns you paid for. The LRR at least has a purity of purpose: It’s a battlefield taxi. Its job is to get a unit safely across the table and deliver it into CC via the assault ramp. And you pay a premium for that assault ramp. Because if you just want to drop a unit off somewhere on the battlefield, a drop pod does that better, for far less points.

I think there is still a place for the LR and a CC unit. TH/SS terminators are still a counter to a lot of nasty things out there. And in a world where people spam S6-7 weapons to glance vehicles to death, AV14 is a rock to their scissors.

I think adding the c-flamers to the HFs in the sternguard is a little overkill. How much burning do you need? I know as a salamander, you answer is probably “ALL of it” but that might be a little excessive. If you are going to include both the LRR with an assault unit, and the SG in a pod, I’d put Vulcan in the LRR and keep the SG at full 10 men. Go 2xHF, 3xC-melta and combat squad out on drop. This lets the meltas pop a tank, and the HFs to roast the passengers (or someone nearby if it’s not a transport)

What CC unit to put in the LRR depends a lot of what you like. We actually have quite a few options. Terminators, command squads, honor guard and vanguard vets all work. Even a humble assault squad could fit if points are tight.

Salamanders use to have an awesome combo of Hammernators + Redeemers for a decent, but expensive, assault unit as the Salamander hammernators gained Master Crafted.

Now though they lost the group-wide master crafted, but you can still upgrade the sergeant. That would be the best way to use the LRR though, normally I just ds the Hammernators in.

Thanks for all the feedback Nevelon.

This is my current list I quickly made up:

HQ
- Vulkan
ELITES
- 10 Sternguard w/ 3 combi-flamers, 2 heavy flamers and serg w/ combi-flamer
TROOPS
- Tac squad of 10 w/ melta, multi-melta, serg w/ combi-melta in rhino
- Tac squad of 10 w/ flamer, Grav-cannon, serg w/ combi-flamer in rhino
- scout squad of 7 w/ sniper rifles and cloaks and a heavy bolter
HEAVY SUPPORT
- Land raider redeemer
- Centurion squad of 3 w/ lascannons and missile launchers

Any advice on how to fit in both the LRR with a squad of TH/SS termies, and the squad of sternguard, still keeping it competitive enough to win a few, but also keeping it fun to play?

Cheers again

One thing about LRs is that they ear up the points. Not just their own hefty price tag, but you want a worthwhile unit inside. All told, it’s going to eat up 450-500+ points. In you list you have 3 big ticket items. The LR, the SG, and the cents. Not a lot of room for other stuff.

Things you could do to shave points:
Drop the scouts down to a 5 man unit
Swap the grav cannon for a HB. Grav/flamers don’t generally want to be shooting at the same thing. If you want to keep the GC, look to upgrade the flamer/c-flamer to grav or plasma.
Re-work the cents. Do they all need MLs? Could also swap them out for a dev squad, same role, less points.

If you want both cents and LRR in the same list, this is one spot where assault cents can work. You get a little of the flamer/melta action, and some serious choppy death. No invuln, so you need to be careful once they disembark.

Changes I would make:
Drop combis from SG, squad to 9 men, add pod -27points
Swap cents for 5 man dev, 4xLC -90
Drop 2 snipers -24
change GC for HB, -25

Add terminator assault squad +a few to many points.(175-225 depending on how many hammers)

Close, but still need to adjust points to get everyone in there. At this point, I’d start asking if you are getting your moneys worth out of Vulcan. He’s nice, but you don’t actually have that much melta. Would you be better with a librarian in the pod with the sternguard? A chaplain charging down the assault ramp with the terminators? There are a few more places we could shave points. Drop the HB from the scouts, the heavies from the tacs, Swap some LCs from the devs to MLs. It could be made to work.

Or realize that what you have in mind is better suited for an 1,850 list, and drop stuff entirely. Depends a lot on what you want.

If you are using Vulkan, your tacticals should all load up on Melta guns and Multi-meltas. This gives you the most bang for your buck when using Vulkan. If you must have Grav-Cannons on them, remember to use Combat Squad so the Grav Cannon can sit back.

To that end I might also recommend upgrading to Razorbacks. A modest point increase but more effective if you decide to go the combat squad route.

If you have to give your Sternguard Combi-weapons, I would recommend again to use Meltas. Both to get the most use out of Vulkan's rule and because with 2 heavy flamers, it's just overkill (you can probably land more hits if they just fired as the normal bolt guns with their Specialist Ammunition rule).

For the LRR, you don't have any units that can make good use of it's rule, so I would drop it in favour of something else or change the Centurions to Assault Terminators.

One good unit you might wanna look at are Attack Bikes. For 50 points you get a Relentless bike that can have a multi-melta (mainly to tie into Vulkan) that would be decent as a flanker for faster tanks. A squad of 3 with Multi-meltas is cheaper than cents and for your purposes can probably wreck tanks much more easily. Another unit would be Drop Pod Melta Dread. It comes fairly cheap and can basically erase one vehicle upon entering, as well as decently threaten anything short of hordes with their new buffed 4 attacks. Alternatively, you can also field it with a Twin-linked Heavy Flamer for it's right arm and a normal Heavy Flamer built into it's left arm for only 15 points more, and it can basically accomplish the same thing as the sternguards.

I would drop the scouts entirely. They don't seem to fit into the whole of the list and other things can do what they do for better.

Thanks guys for all this help. This is the list after changing with some of your suggestions:

HQ
- Vulkan
ELITES
- 8 Sternguard w/ 2 combi-meltas, 2 heavy flamers and serg w/ combi-melta in drop pod
- assault centurion squad of 3 w/ flamers
TROOPS
- Tac squad of 10 w/ melta, multi-melta, serg w/ combi-melta in rhino
- Tac squad of 10 w/ flamer, H bolter, serg w/ combi-flamer in rhino
HEAVY SUPPORT
- Land raider redeemer w/ add. Multi-melta
- Centurion squad of 3 w/ lascannons, serg w/ lascannon and missile launcher

Alternatively, I can swap the dev centurions to a 5 man dev squad with 3 missile launchers and a las cannon and swap the assault centurions for 5 hammer and shield termies, though I do really like the look of centurions

Looks solid. There are pros and cons to every swap. But that looks like fun list to push around in an friendly setting. You will have some bad matchups, but that can be said about any list.

Awesome, thanks again for the help