XIII Legion Ultramarines - 3000 points

Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:

No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.

If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

**Sgt_Smudge**

So, this is my second HH list. As you can see, no Primarchs or LOWs, but a large unit of Breachers, typically for acting as a lynchpin, supported either by the Primus Medicae, or an Apothecary. The Invictarii will be with either the Primus, or another Apothecary, and the Legion Champion. My other power armoured infantry will be in Rhinos for protection and being able to reach targets of opportunity, especially effective with Fury of the Legion. My Heavy Support units just keep the bigger stuff held down, with the missiles acting as my AA.

So, thoughts?

HQ

Legion Centurion (125pts) [Artificer Armour, Legatine Axe, Refractor Field]
Consul [Legion Champion]

Legion Centurion (155pts) [Artificer Armour, Jump Pack, Plasma Pistol, Refractor Field, Volkite Serpenta]
Consul [Moritat]

Legion Centurion (105pts) [Artificer Armour, Refractor Field]
Consul [Primus Medicae]

Troops

Legion Breacher Siege Squad (400pts) [4x Graviton Gun, 19x Legion Breacher Siege Space Marines, Legion Vexilla]

Legion Tactical Squad (215pts) [Legion Rhino Armoured Carrier, 9x Legion Tactical Space Marines, Legion Vexilla, Take an additional Chainsword or Combat Blade]

Legion Tactical Squad (215pts) [Legion Rhino Armoured Carrier, 9x Legion Tactical Space Marines, Legion Vexilla, Take an additional Chainsword or Combat Blade]

Legion Tactical Support Squad (210pts) [Legion Rhino Armoured Carrier, 4x Legion Space Marines, Plasma Guns]

Elites

Apothecarion Detachment (110pts)
Legion Apothecary [Artificer Armour]
Legion Apothecary [Artificer Armour]

Contemptor Dreadnought Talon (190pts)
Legion Contemptor Dreadnought [Kheres Pattern Assault Cannon]

Invictarus Suzerain Squad (550pts) [9x Invictarus Suzerains, Land Raider Phobos]

Legion Destroyer Squad (250pts) [Jump Packs, 4x Legion Destroyer Space Marine, Missile Launcher with Suspensor Web and Rad Missiles Only]

Heavy Support

Legion Heavy Support Squad (210pts) [Flak Missiles, 4x Legion Space Marines, Missile Launchers]

Legion Heavy Support Squad (135pts) [4x Legion Space Marines]

Legion Vindicator (130pts) [Laser Destroyer Array]

**combat engineer**

Any thoughts on taking the Delegatus Consul? Gives he ability to take Legion ROWs at a Centurion cost. Now, I am pretty vague on the XII I ROW, so maybe it's not your thing.

So opinions / thoughts:

#1. - Five Destroyers is wasted points. Once your opponents pick up on how mean their missile launcher can be, they will be mashed by a lot of fire. This could also allow you to take out the Moritat and replace him with a cheap Master of Signals, or Siege Master. E would help out the heavy support squads.

#2. - Why the split in heavy support squads. Points, yeah I can see it. But they seem like another unit that will get squashed quickly to heavy fire. Amalgamate them.

#3. - Are you paying the points for he additional CCW on the tacticals?

#4. - My be I am a weirdo, but a really see no point in minimum size squads, but here are exceptions. The tactical support squad points seem like they could be put to better use as another tactical squad mounted in a Rhino.

#5. - Why no weapons upgrades on the tactical Sgts?

**Sgt_Smudge**

combat engineer wrote:
Any thoughts on taking the Delegatus Consul? Gives he ability to take Legion ROWs at a Centurion cost. Now, I am pretty vague on the XII I ROW, so maybe it's not your thing.

I could take it, but the RoW would require me to take either a Damocles Rhino or a Master of Signals. Either way, that only then allows one other HQ choice. The RoW is alright, but I've never seen it's full effectiveness yet.

#1. - Five Destroyers is wasted points. Once your opponents pick up on how mean their missile launcher can be, they will be mashed by a lot of fire. This could also allow you to take out the Moritat and replace him with a cheap Master of Signals, or Siege Master. E would help out the heavy support squads.

Would increasing the squad size help out? Drop the heavy bolter heavy support squad, and take a ten man unit of Destroyers? Are they worth it then? Otherwise, I'd be taking a Master of Signals and buffing the HS squads, as you said.

#2. - Why the split in heavy support squads. Points, yeah I can see it. But they seem like another unit that will get squashed quickly to heavy fire. Amalgamate them.

Two different loadouts. One is HB, the other is ML. They can't be mixed.

#3. - Are you paying the points for he additional CCW on the tacticals?

Yes, it could be dropped, but the extra CCWs makes them threatening in most situations.

#4. - My be I am a weirdo, but a really see no point in minimum size squads, but here are exceptions. The tactical support squad points seem like they could be put to better use as another tactical squad mounted in a Rhino.

I could take a third Tactical Squad, but the five plasma guns (with two firing out of the hatch) makes for a nice deletion unit. I can screen their Rhino and get it to a unit I want killing, then wipe it with 10 plasma shots in rapid fire range.

#5. - Why no weapons upgrades on the tactical Sgts?

No need for specialised ranged. With Fury of the Legion, I'll get a more solid ranged output, and at the range I'd be using combi meltas or plasmas, I'd rather use FotL and rely on extra bolter rounds to get the job done. Although, I could be open to suggestions on melee weaponry, if it's a decent investment.

**combat engineer**

I take ten with two missile launches and jump packs, but they are points expensive. I find hey are great for dealing with infantry.

I would still bunch the Heavy support squads into one with MLs for all. Even if you decide to incorporate a large Destroyer Squad, and not bother with he Siege Breaker, the mass FP from 10 missile launchers is effective over all EN types. Great for dealing with armour, air and light to heavy infantry.

I still think the 40pts would be better spent elsewhere as opposed to extra CCWs. Making an all ML equipped Heavy Support Squad? Lol.

Solid plan for the Tactical Support Squad. I would add in numbers. Min squads just seem to flimsy.

I never upgrade my ranged weapon on my Sgts. They still get the benefit from FOTL, why fix it if it's not broke. I do however add a power weapon to my Sgts for the assaults I know they will take place in. I must read your ROW.

Mat

**Sgt_Smudge**

combat engineer wrote:
I take ten with two missile launches and jump packs, but they are points expensive. I find hey are great for dealing with infantry.

I think they'd be a decent replacement for the HB Support Squad, especially with the added maneuverability and power at closer ranges. Done.

I would still bunch the Heavy support squads into one with MLs for all. Even if you decide to incorporate a large Destroyer Squad, and not bother with he Siege Breaker, the mass FP from 10 missile launchers is effective over all EN types. Great for dealing with armour, air and light to heavy infantry.

I could drop another unit to accommodate, perhaps the Laser Vindicator? Worth it?

I still think the 40pts would be better spent elsewhere as opposed to extra CCWs. Making an all ML equipped Heavy Support Squad? Lol.

I could drop the laser Vindicator, and take some form of aerial support, such as a Fire Raptor? Or, the 40 points can get me two power weapons and artificer armours on the two Tac Sergeants.

Solid plan for the Tactical Support Squad. I would add in numbers. Min squads just seem to flimsy.

I never upgrade my ranged weapon on my Sgts. They still get the benefit from FOTL, why fix it if it's not broke. I do however add a power weapon to my Sgts for the assaults I know they will take place in. I must read your ROW.

Adding more plasma gunners? Sounds like a decent plan, I could get the points from dropping CCWs and other stuff, but it'd be harder.

Again, I'd be able to outfit most of the Tac sergeants with power swords or axes. Preference? Swords help at initiative and against opponents who don't take the artificer, but the axe would be good against them. Also, artificer armour? Worth it?

**combat engineer**

IMO, Artificer in small squads is worth it. I am a WE player, so it's always axes for this guy. I run 15 marine tacticals with chain axes and pistols.