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Kind of a shower thought, but what if jink saves were usable on all vehicles (and bikes/jetbikes), and varied according the distance a unit traveled (total of movement and flat-out/turboboosting)? It seems like it would make more sense - the farther it travels, that implies it's going faster, and the faster it goes, the more effective it's jinking will be.

So, what if jink gave you +1 to your cover save for every 6" you traveled? (Jinking would still cause a unit to snap fire). Maybe +1 to that if you're a skimmer.

I'll admit I am biased, but it just seems a little silly for a tau skimmer to get a 3+ jink after no movement at all, yet an ork trukk that moves 24" (crusing+flat out) gets no save whatsoever.

The exact method quoted may not be perfect, and would result in 2+ cover saves for turbo-boosting skimmers or jetbikes, but I think the concept is decent at least.

Credit where credit is due, that is a good idea. Maybe tweak it though so that you get +1 for every 6 inches you travel and have it cap out at a 4+ jink save.

So going 6 gives you a 6+, 12in gives you 5 and 18 gives you 4+.

Another change could be to start the jink save at 12 instead of 6.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Side note: you made a lot of sense with that post, it seems both realistic and unbiased towards any specific faction, balanced. Therefore it will now be rejected out of hand

I just want my poor little trukks to have some kind of save after zooming 24" :(

 Kap'n Krump wrote:
I just want my poor little trukks to have some kind of save after zooming 24" :(

What are trukks? I have a couple of AV10/10/10 transports made out of glass, paper and wishful thinking that resemble this "trukk" you speak of, but usually they just look like a small fireball followed by a column of smoke with some dead green bodies lying around it.

Its a cool idea. personally i would say moving gives you a better save, but makes it harder to shoot. while standing still makes you easier to hit but you shoot better as a general concept.

the problem is GW system is a massive mess in the first place to really do anything to it.

It does make good fluff sense. My objection is this, however: units that have Jink currently are priced with that in mind.

For example: A Trukk is 35 points, a Raider is 55 points. Both are 10/10/10, 3HP, open-topped. Most of what you're paying for there is Fast Skimmer status, which comes with Jink. In fact, besides Jink, most of what that gives you is an 18" flat-out move and the ability to move over units and some terrain. (Which, admittedly, is no small thing, but probably not worth 20 points alone).

Or, compare a Chimera to a Devilfish. The Chimera has two fire points, lasgun arrays, amphibiousness and two decent guns. Devilfish doesn't have fire points, and its guns are shorter range (but I'll call them about equal on balance), and has better side armor - but it's 20 points more. It's not Fast, so it moves just as fast as the Chimera - most all of what you're paying for here is Jink. (It is a major advantage)

Now, if this came with some cost shifts across the board, I could go with this.

jade_angel wrote:
It does make good fluff sense. My objection is this, however: units that have Jink currently are priced with that in mind.

For example: A Trukk is 35 points, a Raider is 55 points. Both are 10/10/10, 3HP, open-topped. Most of what you're paying for there is Fast Skimmer status, which comes with Jink. In fact, besides Jink, most of what that gives you is an 18" flat-out move and the ability to move over units and some terrain. (Which, admittedly, is no small thing, but probably not worth 20 points alone).

Or, compare a Chimera to a Devilfish. The Chimera has two fire points, lasgun arrays, amphibiousness and two decent guns. Devilfish doesn't have fire points, and its guns are shorter range (but I'll call them about equal on balance), and has better side armor - but it's 20 points more. It's not Fast, so it moves just as fast as the Chimera - most all of what you're paying for here is Jink. (It is a major advantage)

Now, if this came with some cost shifts across the board, I could go with this.

i would pay 10pts more for a trukk with jink. as it stands trukks are over priced for how easy they are to explode.

Honestly, with the proposed change, I'd leave Trukks at 35 points. I'd just bring Raiders and Venoms down by 10 points each, and probably most Tau, Eldar and Necron tanks down by 10-15 each.

Might bump the cost of Land Raiders, Sicarans and other such heavily armored tanks up a skosh, however.

jade_angel wrote:
Honestly, with the proposed change, I'd leave Trukks at 35 points. I'd just bring Raiders and Venoms down by 10 points each, and probably most Tau, Eldar and Necron tanks down by 10-15 each.

Might bump the cost of Land Raiders, Sicarans and other such heavily armored tanks up a skosh, however.

I think that might not be right either, DE are paying for the transport that can also carry anti tank or anti MEQ weaponry. in comparison my Trukk comes standard with a big shoota or a Rokket Launcha, not exactly spectacular Dakka.

Also I don't think Land Raiders/Sicarans should get a point bump (well the sicaran needs one anyway, feth that thing) IF anything they need an invul or a CS as it stands to justify the presence of that many points in a single vehicle. 1 of 2 things happens with Land Raiders. They either get blown up by melta, OR they get ignored. I have successfully beaten several Marine armies where I never fire a single shot at the Land Raider because for an Ork player the only way to kill them is with Tank Bustas in the assault (IE Melta Bombs). Otherwise most Ork Dakka just pings off the armor of the damned thing.

45 points is probably reasonable when you lose any kind of save while disembarking, even though a Raider does get that one BS4 gun. (Unless you spend 15 points for Stealth, and then you get a 6+ cover save)

Though on balance, maybe dropping Trukks down to 25-30 points would make more sense.

Maybe it would make sense to give skimmers a better jink than other vehicles, to make up for their generally increased costs.

Maybe skimmers have a max jink of 3+, other vehicles a max of 4+.

Because a rules change that requires rewriting the points costs for all armies at once probably isn't going to fly (not that this ever will).

-Remove the "Cover Save" portion of Jink.
-Add "Ignores Jink Saves for Flying Monstrous Creatures, Skimmers, Jetbikes, and Flyers" to Skyfire weapons.

Et voila.