Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Greetings!

This is going to be part tactics study, part observation, part case study on a one day, three round tournament I will be participating in tomorrow (Saturday) January 30, 2016 at Top Tier gaming in Hattiesburg, MS. The tournament will be 1850 points, with ITC FAQ/rules.

I will be playing a fairly standard (for me, anyway) Imperial Guard list (Vostroyans) with an emphasis on mechanized warfare and veterans (No 'power blob'). The list does also have an allied assassin as well, but is otherwise mono guard.

Without going into too much detail (Should a possible opponent be reading) I will give an overview of my list below, and will post my full detailed list tomorrow in a follow up edit. In addition, will be providing opponents armies, their lists, and general synopsis's of the three games I play tomorrow.

My goal in this is two-fold. One, I want to get the word out in the southeastern (MS, AL, LA, and Northern FL) area to any reading who might not know about the tournament scene in the south/central Mississippi portion of the state. Two, I hope to show some good data on where Imperial Guard sit right now in the power rankings. I, and most other guard players, feel the list is lacking at present, and I hope to get some limited metrics on this based on who I'm playing and also see how much, if any, generalship will come in to play.

My list consists of the following: CCS designed to drop from a Fast Attack Vendetta, Leman Russ Command Tank (Pask, warlord) with one squadron tank attached, a pair of Veteran Squads in Chimeras, one Veteran Squad in a bare-bones Valkyrie, a pair of armored sentinels (Squadron), a third Leman Russ (anti-tank), and a pair of Griffon Mortar tanks (each taking one HS slot). In addition, I've got one Assassin allied in to the list. I have one Lvl one Psyker in the list as well. As I said, a full detailed list will be provided tomorrow evening when I get home with an edit to this opening post.

I will post up three individual replies to this thread with each of my first, second and third round opponents, their army & army lists (with pictures, with opponent's permission), and a short bat-rep of each of my games. This may take a couple of days, depending on how quickly I can get things typed out.

Hopefully folks will enjoy following along on here. That said, I'm going to go finish packing up my army and getting ready for the trip down to Hattiesburg tomorrow. Of note, I lived in Hattiesburg for two and a half years while attending college. I graduated from the University of Southern Mississippi which is located right in the heart of Hattiesburg. Great town, and a great school.

More to come later. Wish me luck and I'll have an update tomorrow once I make it home, assuming I'm not dead on my feet by that point.

Take it easy.

-Red__Thirst-

Have a great time and good luck.

So, wound up not being able to go to the tournament. My friend who was planning on driving decided he wasn't going to go last minute, and since I don't presently trust my car to make a ~2 hour drive (old vehicle, great for short drives/around town but I don't trust it for long distance travel).

That said, my day was not spent in vain, as my buddy and I opted to throw down with our tournament lists at his place. This will not as much be a discussion on guard and it's prospects but more of an observation on what I feel is an unbeatable Tau list that my friend has happened upon in the Mont-Ka supplement.

Firstly, as promised, here's my list.

Vostroyan Firstborn V (5th) Combat Division, the "Victors", comprised of the 66th Firstborn Armored Infantry Battalion, the 714th Firstborn Tank Battalion, and 493rd Firstborn Armored Field Artillery Battalion
1850 point Imperial Guard list

HQ: Tank Commander (Pask): 245 + 140 (Total = 385 Points)
-Knight Commander Pask - Command Leman Russ Punisher w/ Punisher Cannon, Hull Mounted Lascannon, Sponson Heavy Bolters, Pintle Mounted Heavy Stubber, Searchlight & Smoke Launchers,
-Leman Russ Eradicator w/ Eradicator Nova Cannon, Hull Mounted Heavy Bolter, Sponson Heavy Bolters, Seachlight & Smoke Launchers

HQ: Company Command Squad = 177 Points
-Commander w/ Carapace Armor, Refractor Field, Frag Grenades, CCW & Plasma Pistol
--3x Veteran w/ Plasma Guns
--1x Veteran w/ Lasgun & Medi-pack
--Squad Wide Carapace Armor & Frag Grenades
----Astropath w/ Laspistol, Frag Grenades, & Flak Armor

Troops: Veteran Squad = 110 Points
-1x Veteran Sergeant w/ Laspistol & CCW
-1x Veteran w/ Lasgun & Demolition Charge
-1x Veteran w/ Grenade Launcher
-7x Veterans w/ Lasguns
--Squad Wide Carapace Armor, Meltabombs, Krak & Frag Grenades
---Chimera Dedicated Transport: 65 Points
-Smoke Launchers, Searchlight, Multilaser & Hull Mounted Heavy Flamer

Troops: Veteran Squad = 100 Points
-1x Veteran Sergeant w/ Laspistol & CCW
-2x Veterans w/ Meltaguns
-1x Veteran w/ Grenade Launcher
-6x Veterans w/ Lasguns
--Squad Wide Carapace Armor & Frag Grenades
---Chimera Dedicated Transport: 65 Points
-Smoke Launchers, Searchlight, Multilaser & Hull Mounted Heavy Flamer

Troops: Veteran Squad = 120 Points
-1x Veteran Sergeant w/ Laspistol & CCW
-3x Veterans w/ Flamers
-1x Veteran w/ Lasgun and Demolition Charge
-5x Veterans w/ Lasguns
--Squad Wide Carapace Armor, Meltabombs & Frag Grenades

Fast Attack: Valkyrie Squadron = 125 Points
-Searchlight, Extra Armor, Multilaser, 2x Hellstrike Missiles.

Fast Attack: Vendetta Squadron = 170 Points
-Searchlight, Extra Armor, 3x Twinlinked Lascannons

Fast Attack: Armored Sentiel Squadron = 92 Points
-2x Armored Sentinels w/ Autocannons & Searchlights

Heavy Support: Griffon Heavy Mortar Squadron = 75 Points (Imperial Armor Vol. 1 for rules)
-Griffon w/ Searchlight, Smoke Launchers, Griffon Mortar & Hull Mounted Heavy Flamer

Heavy Support: Griffon Heavy Mortar Squadron = 75 Points (Imperial Armor Vol. 1 for rules)
-Griffon w/ Searchlight, Smoke Launchers, Griffon Mortar & Hull Mounted Heavy Flamer

Heavy Support: Leman Russ Vanquisher = 150 Points
-Vanquisher Cannon, Hull Mounted Lascannon, Pintle Mounted Storm Bolter, Smoke Launchers, Searchlight

+++Allied Detachment - Officio Assasinorium Culexis Assassin+++

1x Culexis Assassin = 140 Points
-Psyk-Out grenades, Etherium & Animus Speculum.

Total Army Points: 1849
Infantry: 37
Vehicles: 11

The list performed admirably, though against the particular Tau formation I was up against, was rapidly overwhelmed.

My opponent was trying out a Tau formation along with a secondary formation and a CAD. I didn't think to get his list but he had the following in his CAD
Crisis Suit Commander + 2x crisis suits, all plasma
2x Riptides with Ion Accelerator cannons and fusion blasters (Meltagun equivalent)
A squad of fire warriors
2x squads of Kroot
a single squad of two rail-head broadsides.
2x squads of 2 all missile broadsides with full complement of missile drones (4 total drones)
He also had a Drone Net control network with 3x squads of 4 markerlight drones (one held in reserve, the other two deployed) and a single squad of 4 gun drones (deep striking)
Lastly, he ran a Piranha Firestream wing with four piranhas (three squads of 1, and a spotter squad of one).

Let me just say. This last formation, the Piranha Firestream Wing, is odds on the most powerful thing I have ever heard of, or can think of. IF you want to invest in a full sixteen Piranha's (which isn't but around 600 or so points), broken up into three full five vehicle squadrons, and one lone spotter vehicle in it's own 'squadron', you can on turn one, dump twenty thirty-two gun drones on the table and then thanks to the unit special rules, leave the table and enter on-going reserves (if they all stay within 6" of the board edge, not too difficult). Those thirty-two gun drones deploy forward 6" from the vehicle, and then in the assault phase, use their assault jump to go another 2d6". Turn two ALL 16 come back on the field from on-going reserves and dump another thirty-two gun drones out exactly as they did before. So you're now looking at sixty-four gun drones, broken up into two squads of two, and six squads of ten. Half of these are 'free'. Coupled with the Drone Net control (Which I think affects all drones, at least according to my friend) all sixty-four drones benefit from +1 BS and also have jink as well. He may have been mistaken on that, but yea. It doesn't stop there. End of turn two, the Piranha's all leave the table and then beginning of turn three, the come BACK in from on-going reserves and here comes another thirty-two gun drones with them, disembarking. That's Ninety-six gun drones on the field, not counting what you have included in your Drone Net Control already on the board (let's say four full squads of 10, so 40). Anyone else getting flashbacks of Batteries Not Included here?



You essentially have wave after wave of gun drones flying at you. There's not enough bullets to stop them, and if you do try and focus them down the rest of the Tau forces just hammers you into oblivion. Considering drones are T:4 with a 4+ armor save and BS:4 (with the network) sporting twinlinked weaponry that's ST:5, AP:5, there's very little they can't hurt and trying to kill them accomplishes nothing.

So that's the current horror I've discovered today. Nothing you can do stops this, as even if you try to focus on drones, you just don't have enough shooting generally speaking to keep them at bay without ignoring the rest of the enemy force that's also shooting you.

Anyway, feel free to discuss and I'll add more thoughts later. I'm going to go have a beer and contemplate how, if there's even a way, to stop something like this.

Take it easy.

-Red__Thirst-

I don't believe drones can score or contest objectives.

If you kill the drone formation, you remove the global bonus and the gun drones lose their +1BS and Jink. Two units need to be on the board minimum, IG has access to Disrupt Reserves if he hides. First rule is always know your enemy.
http://www.warhammer-tau.com/2015/11/a-drone-for-every-occasion-part-5.html

Drones can be swept in assault by a unit as cheap as a single Sentinel.

Gun drones can't hurt AV12 period.

You also might have anti-horde witchfires, which gives you an additional phase in which to force Morale checks. At LD7 a few units will eventually fail.

600 points is quite a bit -- that's about 8 Wyverns and I imagine they can kill 16 Drones in a turn, though it makes more sense to crush the Tau Obsec units first.

Basically remove the formation bonuses ASAP, kill everything dangerous but fragile (suits, broadsides), then play the VP war of attrition. That's my take on it, but Mechvets and Pask is a very brittle list. Trying to outshoot Tau stacking formation bonuses who outgun you, outrange you, outnumber you, and can outmaneuver you makes for a very difficult fight. Where is your own edge relative to Tau?

Ugh. Sorry to hear. Sounds like those drones were murder. That 64 tl str5 shots from the drones? Idk how any infantry could survivr that.