Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I love this bird. I built one and it looks sweet but I am having trouble finding a way to actually use it. A flier with no AA that can only jink at the cost of not shooting D weapons...And is Psy mastery lvl2! Jezz. Basically...it should be called a wraith-bomber cause that's what it really is. I want to use it so bad but it just doesn't seem to work.

Things I have considered...
Bringing a crimson hunter to cover her from other fliers. (no garenty they come out at same time - unless you bring an autarc...)
Bringing two hemlocks and hope that one gets to the target before they are shot down (USA daylight bomber strategy before the p51).
or bringing guardians and dark reapers with skyfire to help shoot down any would be fliers.

None of these things seem like very efficient options. Anyone have some better ideas. Maybe cast invis on it or on itself?

It is a harassment fighter primarily. If you use the runes of battle on it then it can get up to a 2+ jink save. The mind shock pods can increase the success rate of ld-based attacks or effects. If you use telepathy they boost its damage output as a result. The d-cannons are not super powerful but can be used for cracking vehicles easily enough. As you said, you have to decide if the loss of firepower is worth it to jink.

I have found the hemlock to be amazing in my harlequin list. I just wish mind shackles worked with psychic shrieks...but they do a great job buffing Death is Not Enough!

It can also nuke high toughness stuff incredibly well with S being instant death vs T up to 5 and ignoring Necron res protocols. It also can kill FMCS!

 Xenomancers wrote:
I love this bird. I built one and it looks sweet but I am having trouble finding a way to actually use it. A flier with no AA that can only jink at the cost of not shooting D weapons...And is Psy mastery lvl2! Jezz. Basically...it should be called a wraith-bomber cause that's what it really is. I want to use it so bad but it just doesn't seem to work.

Things I have considered...
Bringing a crimson hunter to cover her from other fliers. (no garenty they come out at same time - unless you bring an autarc...)
Bringing two hemlocks and hope that one gets to the target before they are shot down (USA daylight bomber strategy before the p51).
or bringing guardians and dark reapers with skyfire to help shoot down any would be fliers.

None of these things seem like very efficient options. Anyone have some better ideas. Maybe cast invis on it or on itself?

Not as difficult to use as one might think. I use two of them.

1. Hemlocks CAN eat Flying Monstrous Creatures with their blasts. so not entirely helpless there. The hard to Hit rule is different for FMC's than it is for Flyers.

2. The D weapons on it are super nerfed. it acts like a bd Plasma cannon most of the time. Only wounds or damages on 3's, considered STR 4 for Instant Death purposes, VERY short range... Not awesome. But it still has a couple advantages that are nice. Ignoring FnP and doing multiple Hull Points (even if only one actual damage result) is still cool.

So how to use it? Well here's what I wrote about it when I first started:
http://40kunorthodoxy.blogspot.com/2013/07/6th-edition-eldar-codex-making-flyers.html

Since then they have improved to be Level 2 Psykers.

here's how i use them now:

1993 Pts - Codex: Eldar Roster

210pts 3 War Walkers (Starcannon + Starcannon)

155pts???
1 War Walker (Starcannon + Starcannon)
1 War Walker (Eldar Missile Launcher + Flakk Missiles + Scatter Laser)

165pts Vaul's Wrath Support Battery (3 x D-cannons)

68pts 4 Windrider Jetbikes

85pts 5 Windrider Jetbikes Squad

85pts 5 Windrider Jetbikes Squad

135pts 1 Autarch (Fusion pistol + Shard of Anaris + Eldar Jetbike)

185pts 1 Hemlock Wraithfighter

185pts 1 Hemlock Wraithfighter

160pts 1 Crimson Hunter Exarch (Exarch, 2x Star Cannons)

440pts 8 Warlocks (Eldar Jetbike + 9 x Singing Spears)

135pts 1 Farseer (Singing Spear, Jet Bike)


As you can tell, the army begins play with 15 Psyker dice for the planes to use (plus any they roll for). This is enough dice. I use the planes to impose an enormous penaly on units leadership and then with very few casualties i can drive them off the board. Now if i am smart I'll do some of it in the Psyker phase to make them run and theeeeen do more in the shooting phase to complete them running away if i didn't get em with the first run.

So in this kind of army you are kind of wanting to roll a flank if you're able to do it. It keeps enemy weapons at maximum range and forces them to move if they want a piece of you. The War Walkers knock out the worst of the Anti-air the enemy may have and the Sniping Exarch Crimson Hunter will help nail LD giving characters on occassion. You never know! Vector Dancing is enormously valuable for this list and it helps keep my Psyker powers and shooting in the right position. when thats not enough i zoom off and come back on where needed later.

The natural question is"What if they are fearless". Fair question. Psychic Shriek doesn't care if you're fearless and both jets have it. So sure, cant run units off but you can explode their minds with Terrify and Horrify. So you're hoping for those powers. With them the most powerful Flying Monstrous Creature can be made to cry. Shriek on a a FMCr? Perfect for killing FMC's.

Flyers themselves won't like Crimson Hunters for all the obvious reasons. That's why i really took one. His sniping is nice but its not the main reason to take him. He and the War Walker are my anti-air countermeasures.

The Hemlock really is a handy unit.

Remember that the -2 leadership won't help with Psychic Shriek, but that shouldn't stop you from Shrieking units for more kills. Also, remember that if you attempt to Shriek an FMC (and your group plays that it must roll to hit), you still have to snapshot as you wont have Skyfire until the shooting phase.

Goobi2 wrote:
The Hemlock really is a handy unit.

Remember that the -2 leadership won't help with Psychic Shriek, but that shouldn't stop you from Shrieking units for more kills. Also, remember that if you attempt to Shriek an FMC (and your group plays that it must roll to hit), you still have to snapshot as you wont have Skyfire until the shooting phase.

That's not correct. The Rule is referrring directly to its USAGE in the Hard to Hit rule as t pertains to shooting. However, the Skyfire rule itself covers all shooting. So the Psychic Phase is covered.

Per page 13 bottom right: When Advanced Rules aply to a specific Model, they always override any contradicting basic rules.

Skyfire is an Advanced Rule.

The problem is that it doesnt have Skyfire until it chooses to at the start of the shooting phase.

Goobi2 wrote:
The problem is that it doesnt have Skyfire until it chooses to at the start of the shooting phase.

Negative ghost rider. It always has it. The reference to the shooting phase is there because they are talking about shooting in the Flyer section. So at the beginning of that phase, that is true. Its telling you what IS true, not defining the SkyFire USR. the Skyfire USR is an ADVANCED rule. The one you refer to is a Basic Rule and is not talking about the Psyker phase.

Where does it say it has Skyfire? It's not on the Hemlock dataslate and the Flyer special rules say it can choose to use it (to apply to all weapons) in the shooting phase.

In the Psychic phase you are not given the option to apply those rules.

Advanced has nothing to do with it, when only applies to a seperate phase.

Goobi2 wrote:
Where does it say it has Skyfire? It's not on the Hemlock dataslate and the Flyer special rules say it can choose to use it (to apply to all weapons) in the shooting phase.

In the Psychic phase you are not given the option to apply those rules.

Advanced has nothing to do with it, when only applies to a seperate phase.

Play it your way if you want.

Well I think it's primarily a vehicle hunter anyways with it's d scythes. Like Jancoran said it's just a bad plasmacannon in most cases unless it's shooting at multi wounded model.

Great use for pushing assaults in your favour even when jinking, psychic scream is always nice and the D weapons + vector dancing are great at tank hunting (getting angles on an imperial knight for example) The downsides are that it cannot handle flyers or hordes, so take that into consideration.

Remember the D-scythes count as S4 for calculating ID

My advise would be to use your ground fire power on any interceptors in the area to keep it safe and shoot have it shoot the larger targets... works well when combined with a Crimson Death Formation/ harlequin morale based attacks

 Jancoran wrote:


1. Hemlocks CAN eat Flying Monstrous Creatures with their blasts. so not entirely helpless there. The hard to Hit rule is different for FMC's than it is for Flyers.

This is RAW correct - but I feel the need to point out that in the ITC this is not so. Burst my bubble awhile back sadly.

The ITC says a lot of things. Some of them good. Some of them...

So yeah. organizers are going to have to put their foot down on this tom foolery. The movement of the two unit types is different. The premise of their relative positions on the field is different. The Hard to Hit rule is different for them. The last sentence is the most relevant.

The ITC gets to tell you that they won't work on FMC's and if the TO agrees, i guess you're stuck. Don't let people push you around in your normal games with that though. ITC is for their tournaments. You are under no obligation to agree.