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so just got a start collecting set for nids and i was wondering with what comes with it what would be the best weapon(s) to build on the flyrant i have the stranglethorn cannon, heavy venom cannon, and the bonesword and lash combo? I could potentially take the devourers from warriors to get the twin linked ability but that may look disproportionate to the model.

second question i plan to slow grow a collection what would you guys suggest for a buying order?

with 7th ed having formations is that something i need to build towards?

are any of the non lord of war models from forgeworld worth it?

so just got a start collecting set for nids and i was wondering with what comes with it what would be the best weapon(s) to build on the flyrant i have the stranglethorn cannon, heavy venom cannon, and the bonesword and lash combo? I could potentially take the devourers from warriors to get the twin linked ability but that may look disproportionate to the model.

Magnetizing your monstrous creatures is always a good idea. Lets you try out all of the different options, and also helps for transportation.

However in the current codex there is no choice really. 2 pairs of devourers are head and shoulders above every other loadout available.
Take the deathspitters that come with the tyrant, and cut the guns off at the wrist. Now cut the devourer off a warriors wrist and glue it to the deathspitters wrist. That will get you an extra pair.
The arms are different, but the gun is the same size:

with 7th ed having formations is that something i need to build towards?

None of the tyranid formations are amazing (although we have a vast selection to choose from). Some of them are decent. I wouldn't worry about building towards any of them to start with unless one grabs your attention.

are any of the non lord of war models from forgeworld worth it?

Yes. The Malanthrope is really good. It does the job of a venomthrope (which is already incredibly useful), except it has a much tougher statline so won't die to a random krak missile.
Having a couple of ripper swarms (not the flying ones) are also handy if you're playing maelstrom missions. They are cheap troops which can deepstrike in and grab objectives. You'll probably end up with enough rippers from regular models though. Only bother if you really like the forgeworld ones.
Meiotic spores can be used as proxies for Mucolid spores, which are even cheaper troop choices.

The Dimachaeron is very powerful in close combat. Probably more so than anything you'll find in the codex. But it suffers the same problem as the rest of our close combat critters. Only being able to move 6". So enemies can just back away while firing until its dead.
Stone-crusher fexes are in a similar boat. They are a little bit tougher than standard carnifexes, and have some strong close combat abilities, but they struggle to get there.

what would you suggest for a slow growing buy list?

Depends on what you want to do with it.

It's hard to go wrong with a box of venomthropes/zoanthropes to start with.

If you want what's currently competitive, then just get a bunch more hive tyrants, and minimal troops in the form of mucolids and rippers.

Otherwise if you want a more standard swarm army then you're going to need lots of gaunts. The tyranid swarm box is a good deal and comes with a huge pile of them. Enough to last you a long time.

Or you could go with a more general nidzilla list and focus on big bugs. Mawlocs, hive crones, and carnifexes (oh my).

Not worried about competitive right now but it is good to know what is. That is due to whether i will be wasting my money on certain buys which on a tight budget is very bad.

i know if i could do a mix between nidzilla and swarm i would like that.

for example a swarm of genestealers with maybe some biovores/pyrovores (would like to have a list that uses them)
and a few carnifexes.

are shrikes worth it? i am thinking of taking the warriors i have and make them all shrikes with one of them being a prime is this worth it or is the prime not allowed to be jump infantry and therefore prevent the unit from being able to do so?

Mixing is bad. Going middle of the road is the easiest ways for Tyranids to fail, every time. Because you have a limited number of models, the fact that Nids can't have transports means that as you walk across the table, you die. So units of ten are reduced to four by the time they hit. Taking twenty or more is a good way to survive and deal damage. Which means less points for big bugs which need the same thing. One Carnifex is dead. Two survives. Three wrecks face. One Flyrant dies. Two Survives. Three wrecks face. There's a pattern with the big bugs too.

That said, there are low level swarm ideas that do some decent work. If you have two Flyrants and the Living Artillery Node Formation (three Biovores, Exocrine and Warriors) then you can usually hold your own. And on the swarm side of things, 30 Termagants and a Tervigon that front poops more is a common non-competitive choice. Throw more points in small bugs alongside them, see what works for you. Always include Zoas and Venom/Malanthropes. Expect some games where you just get steamrolled because that entire idea falls FAST to Str 6 Spam. Hopefully where you play you won't encounter much of that...

Genestealers, Pyrovores, Warriors and Shrikes are all considered sub-par choices along with the Trygons, Skyslasher Swarms, Raveners and not-Flyrant HQ choices. Lots of reasons for this, but the big ones are that they just don't survive and cost too many points for it to be okay that they just die. You have to be really clever to make these buggers work right and usually, it's more hassle than it's worth. We have a really nice thread in the Tactics section that has a detailed breakdown on the performance of the units.

Tyranid Primes can not take Wings. It will slow the Shrikes down. The Prime is generally considered to never be worth it. A Hive Tyrant is better in every way and a Flyrant is literally too good to pass on.

gamefreak180 wrote:
Not worried about competitive right now but it is good to know what is. That is due to whether i will be wasting my money on certain buys which on a tight budget is very bad.

Historically, it's hard to tell with nids. Some editions it's been a Nidzilla style that is good (this is when you take MCs, which are Monstrous Creatures) and other times it's been swarms with a few MCs backing them up.
I would say that, more often than not, MCs are good. FMCs are currently very good so I would make sure you own 1-2 of those at least.

Basically, 2 Hive Tyrants with wings and the standard loadout goes a long way to making you competitive. You can take other things to weaken your list but that's a solid core. More FMC=better is a simple equation that applies well, especially with Tyrants.

gamefreak180 wrote:

i know if i could do a mix between nidzilla and swarm i would like that.

Mixing in any list is a bad idea usually. The idea behind skewing (where you spam one unit type) is to make some of the weapons your opponent took worthless and give yourself a kind of point advantage. For example, if your opponent took 300-500 points in anti-armor/MC weapons, and all you have is the swarm, you are kind of playing 300-500 points up. This is a big advantage.

How important this is depends on your local meta. It might not matter at all.

gamefreak180 wrote:

for example a swarm of genestealers with maybe some biovores/pyrovores (would like to have a list that uses them)
and a few carnifexes.

Genestealers and Pyrovores are trash. Genestealers have been trash for a while, and the pyrovore, outside of one weird moment, has been trash since its inception. Genestealers can take a brood lord and might have some use, but not always and it's still not great.
The biovore is good and the carnifex can be good with certain loadouts. If you want a few carnies, take 2 FMCs a few Carnies and add some other units to taste. It's a solid starting point for a list in most environments.

gamefreak180 wrote:

are shrikes worth it? i am thinking of taking the warriors i have and make them all shrikes with one of them being a prime is this worth it or is the prime not allowed to be jump infantry and therefore prevent the unit from being able to do so?

Shrikes aren't top tier but they've worked well for me. They work well in a swarm list or a MC list, though I find them a lot better in the MC list since you want the MCs absorbing str 8/9 weapons.
Make sure they hug cover and they'll do okay. They can't take down a dedicated assault unit easily though (TWC especially will wreck them).

Ah ok yea my meta is primarily tau, space marines, chaos space marines/demons, orks, and i think some necrons don't know if that should change what i pick at all

what about using a swarm unit for tarpit like 30 termagaunts would that work at all or would warriors be a better troop choice for nidzilla list? granted i am totally ok with an all MCs list the only think i am wondering is what the troop choice would be for it.

Gaunts aren't bad. Many use hormies since they are fast and can tie up units, but gaunts do well with the right equipment. You can either take 2 min squads and objective camp or put 60 bodies on the ground. It depends on if you are trying to spam flyers and to what extent.

Warriors are bad. They die to str 8, have bad saves, and lack enough cc output for the points. Shrikes are better simply due to being a lot faster, which allows them to get the all important cover saves needed to survive. Not to mention actually reaching CC.

Raveners can be good, have you looked at those?


Spamming MCs is pretty good and most likely your best bet. Many of the armies you listed are strong, although it's somewhat list dependent for armies like marines and daemons.

Buy Carnifexes. Buy ALL the Carnifexes. Dun matter how they do, you are not a nid player until you own one of the last gems from Jes Goodwin. Before all this bullcrap with biotitans in 40k, every nid player worth his salt had a Carnifex.

In case you can't tell I love carnifexes.

Akiasura wrote:
Gaunts aren't bad. Many use hormies since they are fast and can tie up units, but gaunts do well with the right equipment. You can either take 2 min squads and objective camp or put 60 bodies on the ground. It depends on if you are trying to spam flyers and to what extent.

Warriors are bad. They die to str 8, have bad saves, and lack enough cc output for the points. Shrikes are better simply due to being a lot faster, which allows them to get the all important cover saves needed to survive. Not to mention actually reaching CC.

Raveners can be good, have you looked at those?


Spamming MCs is pretty good and most likely your best bet. Many of the armies you listed are strong, although it's somewhat list dependent for armies like marines and daemons.

well i am glad i planned on making the warriors i do have into shrikes so i am glad my view on that is not bad and no i have not looked at raveners yet but i will look at them later on today.

 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:
Buy Carnifexes. Buy ALL the Carnifexes. Dun matter how they do, you are not a nid player until you own one of the last gems from Jes Goodwin. Before all this bullcrap with biotitans in 40k, every nid player worth his salt had a Carnifex.

In case you can't tell I love carnifexes.

carnifexes look amazing i bet they hit like a freight train

now i hear a huge debate on other forums about how if i go flyrant it needs to be twin linked devourers now while i really like that idea but if i go more melee heavy monstrous creatures would the bone sword lash combo be better or just use the flyrant for range and thin out the herd so to speak and make the target weak for my melee guys.

Fmcs and melee don't mix well because of how charging and flying works generally. Stick to guns.

Same with the carnies. You move them forward while firing two guns for an absurd number of high strength shoots

how are carnies usually kitted out?

The most optimal Fex loadout is the Dakkafex: 2 sets of twin linked devourers (basically the same as the Flyrant)

This is essentially a cheap, spammable version of the Flyrant with less durability. However you can take 3 to a slot, which translates to 36 S6 shots (although this is expensive, something over 400 points). The fex can also pull double duty against slow vehicles, as it still has innate Strength 9 which can pulverize most tanks. Just note that a Fex is not optimized for combat this way since it has really low initiative and it's toughness, wounds and armor are nothing special. It's more of a desperation attack.

My favourite loadout though is the "Screamer-Killer" carnifex; 2 scything talons and Bio-Plasma. This is not for optimization or cheapness, but because it's a homage to the original "Screamer-killer carnifex", which had those biomorphs. Surprisingly, it's pretty killy for it's point cost, being essentially the Tyranid version of a Dreadnought armed with an extremely short ranged plasma cannon (although it's much more expensive than it's space marine counterpart). Don't expect it to break the game, but it's a fun little bugger to run once in a while.

I would strongly advise you to listen to MechaEmperor. This is a good breakdown of the carnie that will serve you well.

 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:
The most optimal Fex loadout is the Dakkafex: 2 sets of twin linked devourers (basically the same as the Flyrant)

This is essentially a cheap, spammable version of the Flyrant with less durability. However you can take 3 to a slot, which translates to 36 S6 shots (although this is expensive, something over 400 points). The fex can also pull double duty against slow vehicles, as it still has innate Strength 9 which can pulverize most tanks. Just note that a Fex is not optimized for combat this way since it has really low initiative and it's toughness, wounds and armor are nothing special. It's more of a desperation attack.

My favourite loadout though is the "Screamer-Killer" carnifex; 2 scything talons and Bio-Plasma. This is not for optimization or cheapness, but because it's a homage to the original "Screamer-killer carnifex", which had those biomorphs. Surprisingly, it's pretty killy for it's point cost, being essentially the Tyranid version of a Dreadnought armed with an extremely short ranged plasma cannon (although it's much more expensive than it's space marine counterpart). Don't expect it to break the game, but it's a fun little bugger to run once in a while.

i will definitely keep this in mind i really like the idea of a bio dreadnaught are the plasma weapons something that comes in with the carnifex?

The current edition of the game really favors shooting over melee. Melee units have to be fast, which is something most of the tyranid codex fails at.

If you're dead set on CC with your tyrant, the only way I've been able to make it work this edition is with the Skytyrant Swarm formation. So a bit gimmicky.

Basically it's a flying tyrant attached to 2 units of gargoyles.
The unit can move 12", and you've got between 20 and 60 ablative wounds before the tyrant starts getting hit.
The tyrant can be loaded up with all the nice melee options. At a minimum, Old Adversary is great to give the entire unit Preferred Enemy, and the Reaper of Obliterax gives the tyrant a number of nice buffs.
Hopefully you get Catalyst somewhere in your army. This unit really benefits from it.

It isn't without disadvantages.
It's majority toughness 3 until there's only 1 gargoyle left, so will take a lot of wounds. Although on the plus side you get to use majority armour save 6+ against grav weapons.
Gargoyles don't innately have Move Through Cover for some reason, so you will take casualties for sticking to cover unless you get lucky with your warlord trait.
Taking a strict reading of the formation rules, even once all the gargoyles are dead the tyrant is not allowed to swoop.


As I said earlier, this is a big gimmicky points sink. Stick to devourers for general use.


EDIT:

gamefreak180 wrote:
i will definitely keep this in mind i really like the idea of a bio dreadnaught are the plasma weapons something that comes in with the carnifex?

The plasma weapon is the Bio-Plasma upgrade on the carnifex. A very short ranged small blast weapon. One of the only sources of ranged AP2 in the codex.