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Hi!

I started playing 40k in 1988 but the last 20 years or so I have mainly been playing historical wargames (and some epic, man O war, warmaster and bloodbowl), but I have now moved to a new city and found a new group of gentlemen to game with - but they only play 40k and nothing else, so I have brought fourth my old ultramarines and bought a few new and painted them aswell. But I am not at all updated on the new rules and absolutely not well informed of the do:s and dont:s of 40k nowadays.

They all play in a friendly but competitive tournament style, but none of them play vanilla space marines/ultramarines oddly enough. So I need some advice what I need to get and which troops that is more or less mandatory in the new edition.

So far I have got (and painted):

HQ:
2 Captain (relic blade/bolt pistol)
1 Captain (powerweapon/bolter)
1 Chaplain (terminator armour)
1 Librarian
1 Apothecary

TROOP:
10 Tactical Space Marines (1 meltagun, 1 rocket launcher, powerfist or flamer on the sgt) rhino
10 Tactical Space Marines (1 meltagun, 1 rocket launcher, powerfist or flamer on the sgt) rhino
10 Tactical Space Marines (1 flamer, 1 rocket launcher, powerfist on the sgt) razorback
6 Scout squad (6 sniper rifle)
6 Scout squad (6 sniper rifle)
7 Scout squad (6 boltpistol/combat blade, 1 heavy bolter)

ELITE:
10 Terminators (2 cyclone missile launcher, 1 powersword)
1 Dreadnought multimelta/Close combat weapon, Drop pod
1 Dreadnought missile/lascannon

FAST:
1 Landspeeder (multimelta/typhoon missile launcher)
10 Assault marines (9 boltpistol/chainsword, 1 boltpistol/powerfist)
7 Bike squad (1 sgt with power weapon, 6 normal bikes)
4 Attackbike squad (1 attack bike with multimelta, 3 normal bikes)

HEAVY:
1 Whirlwind
1 Vindicator (siege shield)
1 Predator
1 Landraider
10 Devestator squad (4 heavy bolter, 1 sgt with powerweapon/bolter, 5 tactical space marines)
10 Devestator squad (2 lascannon, 2 plasmacannon, 1 sgt with powerweapon/bolter, 5 tactical space marines)

So as you can see I havn´t got the Stalker/Hunter, but I guess that is a must buy (so that will probably be my next choise), but how about the Sternguards, Vanguards, Ironclad Dreadnought, Centurion Devastator/Assault Squad and the Thunderfire cannon? And should I get a Stormtalon and/or a Stormraven? Are any of these choices things I should seriously consider, or can I live without them?

Any thoughts on what I should always field or other good "beginner" advises (even thou I started playing 40k 28 years ago, I still consider myself a beginner since I havn´t played anything from the last two editions).

Thanks alot for all your help!

Everything you haven't got is pretty necessary.
Sternguard in pods are great, Vanguards are cheap thunderhammers on the table, Ironclads are *OK*, nothing spectacular. Centurions are a must in today's meta and thunderfires if you really want.

buy tigurius for extra cri with Centurions.

Welcome to Dakka, and back to 40k and the Ultramarines.

One thing about the current edition: it’s very formation based. Not that you can’t put together a list using the old force org chart, but there is a lot of free bonuses to be had if you build your list for them. Luckily, your collection is fairly deep and should serve you well. If you thumb through the new codex, you can see which ones you have, and the ones you are close to filling out with another unit or two.

The big one is the Gladius. It’s made of a battle demi company and at least one auxiliary choice. If you field two demi-companies, you get your basic transports free. This makes for a lot of free points, and harkens back to the razorspam lists we saw in previous editions. Not that you need to go that far. Even a basic Gladius has some nice perks.

Power weapons vary by type these days. Axes are slow, but AP2, swords are good for MEQ, mauls generally OK all around. Who has what is a lot more relevant. Librarians are a good go-to HQ, but you see a lot of tricked out chapter masters on bikes as well. Depending on what kind of list you put together, you might need some new HQs.

There have been some more options added in recent editions. Grav guns are like plasma, but better in a lot of circumstances. On bikes being the big one. They excel at taking down the giant monsters that are far more common out there these days. Tac squad heavy weapons are not required, but I still encourage taking them. But you might want to use a multimelta in the squads with the meltagun. I’d also recommend reequipping most of your sergeants. With challenges, it’s far to easy to single out characters, and a 1W sarge is not sturdy enough to justify his points IMHO. Give you tac squads a matching combi to their squad. You have transports for all the tacs, which is a good thing.

You might want to put a Land Speeder Storm on your things to buy list. One game style new with the last rulebook is Maelstrom, where you draw goals each turn to achieve. There are a few variants, but it makes maneuvering more relevant, as you might need to get some boots over to an objective now rather then the end of the game.

Shooty terminators are not very competitive, but can be fun. Dreads are in the same boat, but got a nice boost in the recent codex.

I like a HB/TML speeder myself, but the MM should do OK there.
Assault marines could use a power weapon on the sarge and a pair of flamers. In general they play second fiddle to bikes, which do a lot better in today’s shooty edition.
One of the perks of bikes is being able to take 2 special weapons in small squads. Grav guns are the weapon of choice, but a little fast melta never hurt either.
You don’t see a lot of attack bikes on the table, they tend to be overshadowed by the normal bikes.

One of the formations is the armored taskforce, which is 3+ tanks and a techmarine. (more or less). SM armor is generally mediocre, but still gets some firepower downrange. Dev squads should probably pick a weapon and role and stick with it. I’d recommend lascannons and popping tanks. Probably not worth sinking points into the sarges. YMMV.

Do you see a lot of flyers on the table where you play? Unless there are a lot, the stalker/hunter is not required. If you want AA fire, I’d look into getting a stormtalon or two. They are scrappy little birds, and double as ground attack ships once the skies are clear.

Sternguard are one of the better units in the codex. Nice models as well. They can either be run bare-bones to just spam special ammo, or in smaller suicide combi weapon squads in drop pods. I prefer the former, but both work. Vanguards are an assault unit in a shooting weighted edition, but get some nice discounts on their toys, and can blender things if given a chance. Ironclads are the drop dread of choice. There is a big difference between AV12 and AV13. Assault cents are generally frowned upon, but cen be made to work. Dev cents are a power unit. Grav cannons vaporize pretty much anything that is a threat. TFC will blow chunks out of hordes and put reliable wounds on just about anything for a modest point investment. One of our better pics as well.

You can live without any or all of these things. But they can be nice to have in your collection. Especially if you play in more competitive circles.

If I were in your shoes I’d do a few things.
--Evaluate wargear on HQs/sarges. This is one of the more transient things between editions. I know I went through my own collection swapping stuff around and putting together some replacements.
--Look into squad upgrades and see if anything important changed. The big one here is grav guns on the bikes, but I’d also change up your tac squads.
--Check formations and see what you need to field them. You have a demi-co and a 10th company TF. You are a techmarine away from an armored TF, and a WW away from the suppression force.

Depending on your budget, I’d probably pick up a dev box for more heavy options (more LCs for your devs, MM/grav cannons for your tacs). A sternguard box makes a nice collection of sargents/captains, and comes with lot of combis/specials. Plus the actual SG themselves. Bikes are very strong these days, I’d put together some HQs on them. Captain and techmarine if possible. Depending how easy it would be to add options to your old ones, you might need a few more for special weapon bikers.

The rest really depends on the style of list you want to play. You have an extensive collection and should be able to put together a number of viable lists from it.

The Stormraven is basically a Land Raider with wings. In addition to being a flier, it also has high AV, so it's hard as hell to bring down. Toss in two Stormtalons, and you have a Storm Wing formation that only requires one reserve roll to come on and grants Strafing Run to the Stormraven as long as one of the Stormtalons is still alive!

I didn't see it mentioned in your post, so I would recommend picking up the new codex. You are no longer limited to the standard FOC. There a new formations and detachments you could use instead. The "standard" SM detachment is the Gladius Strike Force, and you look to have all the pieces necessary to field one, plus some extras.

Basically everything Nevelon said.

Sternguard are OK, but not great. I used to love taking them, but they have been overshadowed by Dev Cents in every way. Pick up at least one box of centurions, and equip with Grav and bolters. I promise you will not be disapointed.

The most competitive builds right now for SM are:

Gladius: You almost have enough units for this. I think with a little kit-bashing you can get this all together. Definitely the most competitive SM build right now

Bikes: Command squad on bikes with grav guns and a few SS. Put a captain with SS and PF in there, and they can carry a game all by themselves. I always run this now

Cent-Star: Basically 4-5 centurions with a bunch of librarians (librarian conclave formation works great here). Equip Cents with Grav/bolters and try for invisibility psychic power. Almost unkillable, just watch out for people trying to tie them up in CC.

TFC are good, but whirlwinds are making a come-back. They have a formation where you take a squad of 3 and a LS, and you get re-roll to hit and to wound. Combined with the multiple barrage rules and they wreck stuff. If you have the points go for the whirlwinds, otherwise a 100pt TFC is still a steal.

Thanks alot for all the great input!

So Im guessing that Gladius is the thing for me then


I will look into my HQ/sgt choises and buy some more HQs then (and remodel some of the tac squad heavys), a Land speeder storm and two bikes with grav guns seems like a must buy aswell. The stalker/hunter will wait then and instead I´ll get a storm talon as AA (+ground attack as a bonus). A Sternguard box will be added to the basket case aswell, and a devestator box (for more lascannons and gravcannons) and I guess a tech marine wount hurt either then (to have more options).

Later on I will look at a Ironclad aswell to mount in my droppod and a Thunderfire cannon seemed a nice future add aswell then

A HUGE thanks for all your input and thoughts!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Do anyone have a nice 1850pts competitive tournament list that they would like to share (that I could "steal", and use as a first reference list to build) ?