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Hey all,

I'm about two editions out of date with what the current meta is for IG. I want to work on converting a small squad to be my small elite group, however I am unsure as to how to outfit them or what unit they should be. Kasrkin used to be my go to, but I see the Kasrkin/Stormtrooper area has been replaced by "Scions". After trying to find out what the deal is myself, I've read that veterans may have come out of this edition on top.

Basically, I'm stuck here. Do I chose Scions, Veterans or another option if I'm trying to create an elite squad of guys? Is either one plain better, and is it worth any difference in points? Also, what weapons should I be looking to outfit them with? Meltas, Plasmas, Shotties? How many of each am I looking at? Unsure if simply switching out the weapons using magnets will be viable here, so I'm looking for an optimal static configuration.

Thanks for any advice guys, any info would be greatly appreciated as it will certainly have an impact on how I go about acquiring the bits for this build.

Do you mean elite by fluff standards or by game play standards? If the former, Scions would be your best bet. Gameplay wise it is more open to debate. I field a small 20 man scion force in most of my games (fielded from the Scion codex due to the superior orders they have access to). Usually I run them as 2 command squads with plasma guns x4 (or plasma x3, medic x1 if I attach my Terminator Ordo Malleus Inq. to the squad to deepstrike with them) and 2x5 man troop squads with 2 meltas each. They deepstrike in and hope to take out high value targets before they die (although the squad with the medic and terminator can be quite resilient). They feel like an elite force to me due to what they usually accomplish and the manner in which they do it (their most heroic feat so far being the destruction of several vehicles on their arrival turn and then managing to get aboard a hovering storm raven the following turn and crippling it with krak grenades). Points wise though, they are pretty expensive for what you get.

In comparison, my Veterans never fail to disappoint me. I know most people seem to love their veteran squads though, so their bad performance in my games is probably just my failure to use them well. I usually run them as meltavets in chimeras like many people recommend but they almost never have any impact on my games. This is because my chimeras are usually dead well before they can get into melta range and once that happens the surviving vets inside are basically wasted points; they will never footslog into melta range and are going to be slaughtered whenever it pleases the enemy. Scions don't have this problem because they can deepstrike. Veterans are anything but elite when I play them.

My Scions look more elite too!

ExFide, how many melta squads in vets do you use? The key to running mech vets is redundancy. I usually go with 2 melta squads, and 2 plasma squads. Plasma squads get carapace to help with the gets hot rolls, and meltas just take 2 to keep points down. You also have to present your opponents with multiple targets. Melta vets are not a threat turn one and turn two, but a squad of LRBTs are, they should be drawing fire while you skirt up the board with your meltas hugging cover until you are too close for them to do anything about it.

Scions are a great delivery system for meltas, but they are just an expensive suicide unit. 90 pts to hopefully try and pop a tank. And getting them where you want isnt a guarantee. So there is risk involved. But if you do get them where you want you get 2 melta shots and a krak grenade, (and one plasma pistol shot if you really want to sink the points in) to try and destroy a tank.

As for the OP vets have more options, giving them more customization. You can take any and all doctrines, 3 special weapons, a heavy weapon, the choice between lasguns or shotguns, 2 different transports. etc etc. But they dont look as cool and they can become very expensive.

 Tenzilla wrote:
ExFide, how many melta squads in vets do you use? The key to running mech vets is redundancy. I usually go with 2 melta squads, and 2 plasma squads. Plasma squads get carapace to help with the gets hot rolls, and meltas just take 2 to keep points down. You also have to present your opponents with multiple targets. Melta vets are not a threat turn one and turn two, but a squad of LRBTs are, they should be drawing fire while you skirt up the board with your meltas hugging cover until you are too close for them to do anything about it.

Scions are a great delivery system for meltas, but they are just an expensive suicide unit. 90 pts to hopefully try and pop a tank. And getting them where you want isnt a guarantee. So there is risk involved. But if you do get them where you want you get 2 melta shots and a krak grenade, (and one plasma pistol shot if you really want to sink the points in) to try and destroy a tank.

As for the OP vets have more options, giving them more customization. You can take any and all doctrines, 3 special weapons, a heavy weapon, the choice between lasguns or shotguns, 2 different transports. etc etc. But they dont look as cool and they can become very expensive.

You're right, lack of redundancy is definitely my problem. I only own 2 chimeras currently and one of them usually houses a command squad. The strategy you suggested would no doubt help them survive. I need to look into getting a few more. Although I'm considering switching my current chimeras to the inquisitorial versions which are superior in every way, and loading them out with henchmen squads. You could consider that too OP, as inquisitorial henchmen are the epitome of a customizable small squad (though they will be stuck at BS 3 instead of 4 but you have easy access to psykers henchmen for prescience to mitigate that).

Also henchmen get plasma guns for 10 pts for some reason

Thanks for the posts guys!

What I'd like to know now is;

- Are Scions worth the cost? I see they're effective, but would it be worthwhile to bring 1-2 squads of them, or is that regarded as being wasteful?

- What's the model:effectiveness ratio like for henchmen, veterans and scions? From a fluff perspective, I'm looking for the baddest boys on the block.

Thanks again guys, so far this has really helped me narrow down the parts I'm searching for. What unit they end up being won't really affect their look, so no need to take that into account. I'm trying to figure out what unit to take is so I know how many of these guys I need to be prepping. They're going to be a mixture of Kasrkin, Veteran and Scion with possibly some Elysian elements.

If anyone has any cool ideas for what I should use as their primary weapon models, throw the ideas my way. I haven't decided on anything solid on that front yet.

Well Henchmen have no models and a generally filled in with guardsmen or something similar for the basic acolytes.

Scions are 2 pts less than a space marine. while having inferior everything, save BS. But they have DS and Move through cover. Do you need a unit with those abilities? If they are not mandatory abilities then I would save far and away they are not worth the point cost.

They are the same points as SoB who have power armor, +1 LD, a bolter and bolt pistol, a 6++ and +1 to Deny the witch. With the ability to gain PE for a turn. (twice with wargear)

Now vets are base half the cost per model, but you start with 10 as opposed to 9. But you have to pay for everything you want. Krak grenades, carapace armor, camo cloaks, defensive grenades, melta, etc etc. But they bring the most firepower, and the most wounds to the table. however without orders, they lack an special rules.

Henchmen can be average shooters, but cheap ones, or expensive ones depending on how you want to gear them. They can be a super choppy unit, with the right additions etc.

They all have access to a decent transport, with the Scions being the "best." Best as in most shooty, and fast. But also cost an insane amount for an AV11. You can never go wrong with a Chimera, and the Henchmen have a better one than guard. The henchmen also get Land raiders.....

So what is the unit going to be used for? Do you require them to infiltrate? Deep Strike? Scout? etc.