Starter Blood Angels list help. (BaC + extras)

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**Red__Thirst**

Howdy folks.

I'm going to soon be embarking on assembling my BaC box, and while I don't yet have and actual rules, I can at least theory craft a few ideas here in an effort to see if they will be viable.

My list looks to be as follows:

HQ: Praetor with Blade of Perdition, Iron Halo, Volkite Charger (May replace this with something else, not sure), Artificer Armor, Jump Pack, Meltabombs and Digi Lasers. (This Model will be built using Sanguinary Guard bits and parts for the most part)

Fielded with the new Offensive Blood Angels Rite of War: "All jump infantry units, must be held in reserves, and must deep strike in on turn one, no rolls needed, all deep striking units (not just jump infantry) gain a +5 cover save on the game turn they arrive, and all shooting attacks from deep striking infantry and jump infantry units gain pinning on the turn they deep strike in. all blood angels gain +1 initiative on the charge, characters must always accept challenges if issued.
compulsory choices for this rite must have jump packs, must take a compulsory fast attack choice, which must have deep strike or be a flyer. can’t take fortifications, sentry guns or any LoWs that aren’t flyers or sanguinius himself."

Troops: Legion Assault Squad:
Sergeant w/ Artificer Armor, Lightning Claw & Power Fist
12x Marines armed w/ Bolt Pistols & Chainswords
1x Marine armed w/ a Power Sword & Bolt Pistol
1x Marine armed w/ a Power Axe & bolt Pistol
Squad wide wargear: Power Armor, Jump Packs, Meltabombs, Frag & Krak Grenades
15 models total

Troops: Legion Assault Squad:
Sergeant w/ Artificer Armor, Lightning Claw & Power Fist
12x Marines armed w/ Bolt Pistols & Chainswords
2x Marines armed w/ a Power Axes & Bolt Pistols
Squad wide wargear: Power Armor, Jump Packs, Combat Shields, Frag & Krak Grenades
15 models total

Fast Attack: Legion Jetbike Skyhunter Squadron:
Sergeant armed w/ Meltabombs & Jetbike armed w/ Heavy Bolter
Marine w/ Jetbike armed w/ Heavy Bolter
Marine w/ Jetbike armed w/ Volkite Culverin

That's the basic start of my force. Low points obviously, ~750 to 1000 points. Hopefully it's not too terrible.

I'm a little confused regarding the offense oriented Rite of War, and how it interacts with list building. All compulsory options must have jump packs, which I've covered, and the fast attack option I've chosen has Deep Strike as well. Hopefully it's a legal list. I'll be working to expand both squads of infantry to full size and also expand the jetbikes to a least 6 strong down the road.

After that, I'll be looking at getting a flyer or two for support and then wait to see what Legion Specific units Blood Angels get, if any. I foresee Sanguinary Guard being in play in some form or another, but beyond that, who knows.

Thanks for any help and feedback in advance. Take it easy.

-Red__Thirst-

**Brennonjw**

From a quick glance you WILL need a praetor or the console that lets you take rights of war as you're not allowed to just take a RoW. Beyond that, I like the room for expansion this list has, though hopefully it will be better once Assault squads get their price reduction.

**Red__Thirst**

Brennonjw wrote:
From a quick glance you WILL need a praetor or the console that lets you take rights of war as you're not allowed to just take a RoW. Beyond that, I like the room for expansion this list has, though hopefully it will be better once Assault squads get their price reduction.

I have a Praetor in my list, it's at the very top of the quoted section where the list is. Kitted out to be fairly choppy and sporting a Volkite Charger for ranged attacks and a Blade of Perdition + Digi Lasers for a decent number of attacks and hopefully a good amount of wounds thanks to the swords extra wound generation.

I'm currently waiting to see how much of a price reduction is coming, but intend to build out two 15 man squads for starters and expand them to 20 man each later, with the possibility of breaking them into four 10 man squads should I choose to do so, or running three 10 man squads in the current iteration. I just like the thought of two 15 man squads, one kitted out with meltabombs as an anti vehicle squad, the other sporting combat shields where the Praetor can attach and go after infantry.

Should be a lot of fun to build and play I hope.

Take it easy for now, and thanks for the feedback Brennonjw.

-Red__Thirst-

**VictorVonTzeentch**

Thus far it looks good to me. I like seeing the Assault Squads rather than the usual Vet Tacs or regular tacs. Plus with them needing one less to wound in close combat the Assault Squads will be beasts when they get into combat and with Pinning and the 5+ Cover save they will get into combat on their next turn.

Dont know much about Jetbikes but how they are kitted out seems good for harassing Infantry heavy lists.

So far it looks like for Anti-AV you've only really got melta bombs, so when looking to expand I would suggest some more anti-armor.

**Red__Thirst**

VictorVonTzeentch wrote:
Thus far it looks good to me. I like seeing the Assault Squads rather than the usual Vet Tacs or regular tacs. Plus with them needing one less to wound in close combat the Assault Squads will be beasts when they get into combat and with Pinning and the 5+ Cover save they will get into combat on their next turn.

Dont know much about Jetbikes but how they are kitted out seems good for harassing Infantry heavy lists.

So far it looks like for Anti-AV you've only really got melta bombs, so when looking to expand I would suggest some more anti-armor.

Yes, the next thing on my to-buy list will be more jetbikes, and some anti-tank speeders or, possibly, a storm eagle.

That's long term though of course.

Hopefully Blood Angels will get some cool new units to help flesh them out some once they get more attention. We'll see.

Take it easy.

-Red__Thirst-

**VictorVonTzeentch**

I imagine one of the units they will get will be like Proto-Sanguinary Guard, which would work well with their Day of Revelation Rite.

Man some of the Javelin Speeders and a Storm Eagle or Fire Raptor would be cool.

But yeah, for now, especially at lower points levels I dont think you will have too much of a problem.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, with their Cover Saves and Pinning shots being something everyone that deepstrikes gets, having Tactical Support Squads in Drop pods could be mean.

**Red__Thirst**

I am debating doing up one tactical support squad (10 man) in a drop pod and possibly a Contemptor Dreadnought in a Drop Pod as well for backfield heavy/armored support.

Not sure what weapons to give the support squad, though I'm leaning toward high RoF weapons such as Volkite to take advantage of the pinning and doing wounds to infantry/heavy infantry that's floating around.

We'll see what happens. I've got a BaC box to put together and paint first.

Take it easy for now guys and thanks for the feedback thus far.

-Red__Thirst-

**VictorVonTzeentch**

The only Volkite weapon you can get on the support squad is the Caliver, which you wouldnt be able to use on the turn you deepstrike as its a heavy weapon. So maybe make them expensive and throw them out with Plasma Guns?

And no problem happy to help.

**Red__Thirst**

Ahh I didn't realize that (No rules here yet to be honest), thanks for the clarification.

Yea, full on plasma death squad sounds to be the most enticing way to effectively 'NOPE' something out of existence with focused plasma fire.

I will have a trio of drop pods for my 40k force, plus a FW dreadnought drop pod as well to use. So that's a fun option, especially with a basic contemptor dreadnought available. The contemptor won't get pinning, as it's not infantry or jump infantry, but it will have a 5+ cover save, which is swanky and hopefully will help keep it alive long enough to clear the pod and mix it up with some targets or hunting tanks.

Lots of options. We'll see what we can see in short order.

Take it easy for now.

-Red__Thirst-

**Swampmist**

Actually, support squads can also take Volkite Chargers, which are 18" Assault 2

**VictorVonTzeentch**

Ah, no problem. Holding out for both Red Books?

Yeah the Drop Pods could be useful when you eventually build up the force, there are alot of units you can put in them.

For the Contemptor you can give it the Kheres Assault Cannon, and then instead of a heavy flamer on the Dread CCW, you can give it the basic Assault Cannon. So in lew of pinning you can instead just decimate them with a rain of fire.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Swampmist wrote:
Actually, support squads can also take Volkite Chargers, which are 18" Assault 2

Did they add that option in the Crusade Army list?

**Swampmist**

As far as I know, it's been around for a while. Asuming we're talking about the troops choice support squads here, and not HEAVY support squads which are quite different

. Also, Red_Thirst, don't forget that most units do NOT have Drop Pods as a standard DT choice, and you need specific rights of war to unlock it. Contemptors DO get Dreadnaught DPs though, from what I remember.

**VictorVonTzeentch**

I was just looking at it in the Book One and Chargers arent on their list of weapons. They get the Rotator Canon, the Volkite Caliver, Plasma Gun or Meltagun to replace their standard Flamer.

Also looking at it, support Squads cant get Drop Pods with out a RoW, so there goes that idea.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
But Dreadclaws are a Fast Attack Choice.

**Red__Thirst**

Good to know on the Dreadnought drop pod, Glad I splurged and got a FW dread pod for my BA. Also yes, I'm planning on getting at least one Dreadclaw pod down the road for general use on an infantry squad of some kind, depending on what unique units BA eventually get access to.

I had not thought of converting the Dread to have a Kheres pattern Assault Cannon on one arm, and a 'regular' assault cannon mounted inside of the DCCW.. that's just downright nasty. ALL the dakka...

May just start that conversion up shortly. Sounds quite fun.

Thoughts to ponder for sure. More to come soon. I'm off to start planning out my first project for 30k.

Thanks so much for the help once again you guys.

Take it easy.

-Red__Thirst-

**Gashrog**

VictorVonTzeentch wrote:

Swampmist wrote:
Actually, support squads can also take Volkite Chargers, which are 18" Assault 2

Did they add that option in the Crusade Army list?

Yes they did.

**VictorVonTzeentch**

Nice. I think its time I updated to the CAL, just in time no doubt for them to put out the Updated CAL sometime in the near future.

**Red__Thirst**

Revising my second Legion Assault Squad sergeant's build somewhat, and looking for some feedback.

I'm retaining the Lightning Claw, as coupled with the Blood Angels requiring one less to wound, is pretty excellent.

What would be a good alternative weapon for him? A pistol (plasma, or possibly Hand Flamer?) with the combat shield, or would a better option be another melee weapon, such as possibly a Power Axe or something similar so he can attack with AP:2? Or should I just stick with the Power Fist + Lightning Claw combo?

Thanks in advance for any feedback guys. Take it easy.

-Red__Thirst-

**VictorVonTzeentch**

Well the P. Fist and the L. Claw combo would give him an extra attack for dealing with his targets.

But an Inferno Pistol could help that squad deal with armor they might happen across.

**Red__Thirst**

That's what I'm looking at. I may run a Lightning Claw and Inferno/Flamer pistol instead on the second sergeant, since that squad will likely have 2x power axes in it for the AP:2 hits. Just have to hope I don't square off against anything with a 2+ save, but that squad will all have combat shields to help with at least some form of an invulnerable save.

I've started work on assembling and prepping the first assault marine squad sergeant, armed with Artificer Armor, Mk IV jump pack, power fist, and Lightning Claw. Should be a fun build.

More to come later. Take it easy for now.

-Red__Thirst-

**Ifurita**

Where are you going to get all of those extra jump packs?

**Red__Thirst**

A fellow Dakka member is sending me a good number in the mail, though admittedly not as many as I will wind up needing. All told I'm going to have around 19 or so, counting the ones I already have. I'm going to need another 12 or so more eventually, possibly more depending on if I choose to field a third Legion Assault Squad in my list down the road.

I'm hoping 30 to 40 assault marines will be a good backbone I can then build off of, as I'm fairly sure that as long as I have the 'compulsory' HQ and two Troops choices filled then I can start to field other stuff, such as a Contemptor in a Dreadnought Drop Pod, a storm eagle, or whatever else tickles my fancy.

Hoping I receive the jump packs in the mail soon, if nothing else. In the mean time I'm still working on painting up Death Company for my 40k Blood Angels in the mean time.

Take it easy.

-Red__Thirst-

**Red__Thirst**

Quick update, not to necro the thread.

I'm going to be starting work on the arificer armored Sergeant in short order. I'll post a picture of the dry-fit mock up later once I can get home and blu-tack it together. I'm finishing up a tactical squad sergeant first for my 40k Blood Angels before I start to work on my 30k force, which leads me to my other reason for posting here tonight.

As some folks may be aware, Blood Angels in 40k use helmet color to denote what kind of unit they belong to. Specifically blue helmets for devastator marines, yellow for assault marines, and red for tactical marines. Veterans wear gold helms also, as an aside. This is so a commander can quickly see what forces are where on a battlefield from above while hurtling through the air with a jump pack.

I'm curious to know if anyone knows if this practice of helmet color denotation came about during the Heresy, or if it is a more 'modern' 40k affectation that was adopted after the Heresy ended & the codex Astartes was implemented.

I've done what research I can but cannot find anything, and short of e-mailing Forge World (which I actually plan on doing later, just to pose the question) I am kind of at a loss.

I realize they're my minis and I can paint them how I wish, but I'm a stickler for making sure the miniatures are 'correct' in their markings and affectations, including squad markings and the like.

And info or feedback on this would be greatly appreciated & thanks for reading folks. More updates will be forthcoming in short order.

Take it easy for now.

-Red__Thirst-

**Gashrog**

I'm aware of no definitive statement regarding helmet colours, but if you look at the background picture for the Blood Angel Legiones Astartes & Wargear pages in Retribution the MkV Assault Squad clearly has yellow or white helmets.

Random historical factoid: The helmet colours and droplet company markings first appeared in the Tactical Squad article in WD129, although finished article was 'modern' a concept sketch published in WD346 shows that the schemes were actually meant to be Heresy era.

**Red__Thirst**

See, that's what I was thinking.

That seems like something that the Blood Angels held over as a kind of nod to their Legion days when they otherwise adopted the codex astartes at the end of the heresy.

Kind of like "We'll use this organization thing and break into Chapters, but we're keeping our helmet designation, as well as our company markings and squad knee-pad designations. You don't like it? Screw you, it's how our Primarch laid it out and we're honoring his memory."

I think I'm going to go with the yellow helms on the squads, with the side benefit of being able to use them in my 40k force as assault marines. We'll see, but barring someone tells or shows me otherwise soon, I'm sticking with yellow helms for the Legion Assault Squads.

**StarHunter25**

On the sergeant, just do 2x claws. Give him a meltabomb, and have him be your designated Krak thrower. So many people forget to chuck their Krak.

**Red__Thirst**

Two issues with just slapping a pair of claws on him.

One, I don't have a pair of lightning claws without having to go to e-bay and bits order them there.

Two, that removes any ability for the Sergeant to get AP:2 attacks for dealing with a challenge vs. another non independent character. I'd rather have the AP:3 claw backed up by the AP:2 fist and let him still toss krak grenades on the way in regardless and benefit from +1 attack while being able to swing fast or swing hard, depending.

It makes him a little more expensive, granted, but honestly with keeping the rest of the squad somewhat bare-bones, and the rest of the unit he's attached to having melta bombs as well, I would rather have the added utility to be honest.

Just my reasoning for that. Take it easy.

-Red__Thirst-

**StarHunter25**

I must have glossed over the PF/claw option. I'll have to look at that when I get home. I thought they only got ccw>ccw+ or pistol >pistol+.

Addendum - give a biomancy librarian with blade of perdition a shot. If you get Iron Arm and/our Warp Speed he has a fair chance of ganking even primarchs before they can swing.