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Hello,

I'm building a small force of Ultramarines to try and encourage myself to actually paint a whole army, instead of getting bored halfway though and starting another project .

I'm looking at running a Battle Demi-Company formation, in order to get all the ObSec and another use of the Tactical Doctrine. I'm not sure if it is worth bringing at this point level, or if I'd be better served with a combined arms detachment and a Librarian. Either way, I'm interested in building as fluffy a list as I can.

=== Batte Demi-Company Formation ===

Captain (115)
- power sword, combi-grav (basically WYSIWYG on the space marine captain model)

Tactical Squad (130)
- grav gun, combi-grav, rhino (captain rides here)

Tactical Squad (130)
- plasma gun, combi-plasma, rhino

Tactical Squad (130)
- plasma gun, combi-plasma, rhino

Assault Squad (95)
- jump packs, flamer x2

Devastator Squad (150)
- lascannon x4

=== 750 points total ===

I think this list should be able to hold its own, but I'm fairly inexperienced with actual gameplay so any critique or advice would be welcome. Trying to see if the benefits of a Demi-Company outweigh the benefits of a cheaper and potentially more useful HQ in the form of a Librarian in a CAD.

Thanks!

At such a low level of points the demi-company may not be the best method to play marines. Sure, you can use a doctrine each turn but you're severly limited in how many guns you can bring. You'll say: but I have weapons in every squad! yeah, but your vehicles are paper thin, and you have only a stormbolter per vehicle and you're MSU spam. Instead drop a squad and upgrade the rhinos to razorbacks with either TL lascannons, TL assault cannons or LC and TL plasma gun. IMO you're better taking the AC, since you'll pump 8 TL shots at the sweet S6 and with rending, meaning you'll have anti hordes and you can use them to bully tougher more elite units with their high stregnth and rending. It also solves a weakness in your list: all your anti tank is focused in a single unit.
Now, this depends on your meta game but if you have any eldar (fire prisms, eldrtich storms, etc)/tau (riptides and co)/guard (basilisks... well, most of their armoury)/chaos space marine (defilers and co) in their ranks you'll be blown in the first round they have of shooting (and a guard player at that point level can bring two russes, so don't get your hopes up for a lucky pen)

With the AC razorbacks you now have 3 units that can threaten armor, meaning you have a better chance (and no, a plasma gun shot doesn't count as anti-tank, unless your opponents are Deldar).

Also, with what I said you'll save 130pts. buy dozer blades for your razorbacks, move one of them to the dev-squad and get the tacticals a rhino with dozer blades. Ob. Sec. razorback may be a juicy target so minimize their priority rating.

If you could get a 3rd razorback, you'd need to drop the combi-weapons (1 S7 AP2 shot is nowhere as terrifying as several rounds of TL 4 S6 AP4 rending shots) to get enough points.

Now, at 1000, with what I said, you could easily bring the demi-company and would be a good idea.

First, welcome to Dakka and the Ultramarines.

At 750 the demi-co is probably more tac squads then you want. But it does make for a very solid base to work up from in today’s formation world.

Unless you already own that captain, I’d avoid him. If you do have him already, the way you describe is probably the best way to get some use out of him. Captains (like most SM HQs) want to be in close combat and should be geared for such. It doesn’t need to be all the way, with a thunder hammer shield eternal combo on a bike, but at least a power weapon, a bolt pistol, and some way to get there.

For your list, I’d go with the other demi-co HQ: the chaplain. Give him a jump pack to roll with the assault marines and call it a day. They don’t need nearly as much gear as the captain to work. Don’t expect him to be knocking down greater demons or anything, but he should help the squad blender soft targets.

Your tac squads are set up well for MSU spam. I might trade one of the squads out for some melta. In an ideal world, they would be in razorbacks. When picking up kits, that’s what you should buy. You can swap them back to rhinos just by not glueing on the top hatches. Although as an Ultramarine, you should consider going for the traditional 10 men in rhinos when points allow. Might not be as min/max effective, but makes for a good looking army and is good enough for FLGS play.

If you are going to spend points for a vet sarge with a CC weapon, the assault squad is the place for it. If you know there is going to be a HQ tagging along, it’s safe to go for an axe. If not, a sword/maul is better. Less chance of being singled out in a challenge and killed. 2xFlamer is the right call here.

If you plan on going full company for the free transports, magnetizing backpacks so they can take a razor is a good idea. Also, bikes are in a better spot mechanically these days, so if you want a stronger unit, they are probably the better choice. Less iconic though.

4xLC dev squad is probably the best overall use of them these days. The main problem is you only get 2xLCs in the dev box. 2xLC, 2xML is less focused, but still OK-ish.

Thanks for the quick responses!

@Lord Kragan

So would you say it is worth losing a squad of five tactical marines in favour of upgrading to two assault cannon razorbacks? I'm just worried that they would be just as easily dispatched as a rhino, and that I'd have a smaller presence on the table with one less unit.


@Nevelon

I do have that captain model, yeah. I know he isn't modelled with the best loadout, but he'd at least still have a bolt pistol for that extra attack in CC. The challenge is getting him safely there in the first place.

I've got a foot-slogging Chaplain, but I'm still hoping GW will bring out a nice plastic jump pack-wearing Chaplain. I do like the Blood Angels one though, I'd almost be tempted to just buy one of them and try to play down the Blood Angels iconography on him.

I've been buying Razorback boxes too, yeah. Do you have a recommended weapon option for them? I've been avoiding them so far as I feel the points could be better spent more models on the ground, due to the flimsy nature of Razorbacks.

Would you recommend a veteran sergeant with a CC weapon in the Assault squad? I tend to shy away from those upgrades to save points for other areas.

The full company is a nice buff, but I'd probably never get around to buying and painting all of those free transports . I'm hoping for some new interesting formations in this "Angels of Death" supplement book coming out, but I've a feeling it'll just be the previously web-exclusive formations like the Skyhammer force.

Thanks again for the replies!

The best load for that captain is probably going to be relic blade and combi grav in artificer armor. If you look at the codex, to get most upgrades you are swapping out his standard gear. So to get the sword and combi, he’s trading in his chainsword and pistol. It can be a little confusing.

That BA chaplain is nice looking. I’m not sure how easy it would be to just slap a JP on your foot chaplain. I kitbashed my jump chaplain sometime around 3rd edition. When I field a chaplain on foot I generally use Cassius, as he’s a good value for what you pay. Mostly in a drop pod, which is a decent way of getting HQs on foot in PA close to your foes. Sternguard and assault marines both make decent squads to drop with, as do command squads.

To be honest I don’t field razors that often. I’m a big fan of full 10 man tac squads, so take rhinos instead. It’s probably worth upgrading to the TLLC or TLAsC. If you feel like kitbashing, the TLPG/LC combo is popular. If you plan on sitting back and shooting, the LCs are probably better, but for aggressive squads, the assault cannons will be in range.

In marine vs. marine close combats, you tend to get bogged down into slap-fests that take forever to resolve. Taking a vet sarge with a power weapon will speed those up dramatically. I can’t recall the last time I didn’t take one. I do swap around what power weapon he has, but he will have one. I do tend to be very stingy with upgrades myself, but make room here.

It looks like the Angels of Death is mostly a compilation book, with some web exclusives, but also a lot of the formations from recent warzone books and WDs. I’m not sure if we’ll be able to use them in a gladius, but should be able to field them solo, and many of them are quite nice. We should get more solid rumors/leaks throughout the week.

The new formations are for the AoD special decurions (for salamanders, iron hands, and novamarines).

Nevelon giving solid advice here.

Jump chappy is a nice model I think.

Podding in creates a second front and nothing like making opponent play your way. Cassius and sternguard with a power weapon at that points level will have their attention.