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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 0045/05/21 07:51:02
Subject: Minor Changes to Angels of Death
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Chaplain with Hate to Spare
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So Angels of Death is, IMO, a pretty darn good book. But there are a couple details that bug me. Here are a couple fixes that I think the book needs.
Under all of the different formations, put a little notation that states that each formation may be taken in an Ultramarines Gladius Strike Force as a Core (Pinion Battle Demi-Company and Stormlance Battle Demi-Company) or Auxiliary(All other formations) Choice.
Explanation: Ultramarines(and their Successors) are supposed to be Chapter that is most well-versed in the teachings of the Codex Astartes. All of the formations in the book represent battle formations from the Codex. It stands to reason that the Ultramarines would be able to field every formation listed in the book.
On page 80, under Strike Force Command, add Pedro Kantor as an option.
Explanation: Pedro Kantor, currently does not have a spot where he can be fielded in the Sternhammer Strike Force. The Strike Force Command is a logical place to put him.
On page 80, under Battle Demi-Company, add a little note stating that Pedro Kantor can replace either a Captain or a Chaplain in the Battle Demi-Company.
Explanation: The Battle Demi-Company is actually the odd man out in that both the Pinion Battle Demi-Company and the Stormlance Battle Demi-Company both allow Pedro Kantor to be taken in place of a Captain or Chaplain.
I am trying to think of the best way to make the Black Templars work. Just saying they can substitute Crusader Squads in any formation that includes Tactical Squads is definitely one thing that I want to do. Any Captain can be exchanged for High Marshall Helbrecht or the Emperor's Champion and Chaplain Grimaldus for any Chaplain. However, getting them able to use a Super Detachment is a little more complicated than that. The Gladius Strike Force provides the groundwork for a good Black Templars Detachment, but they would miss out on the biggest benefit since they pack themselves into Land Raider Crusaders rather than Rhinos or Razorbacks. The Sternhammer Strike Force isn't an option since it is tailor-made to Imperial Fists Chapter Tactics, including having an ability that keys off of one of the Chapter Tactics. So they are kinda stuck with the Gladius.
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5250 pts
3850 pts
Deathwatch: 1500 pts
Imperial Knights: 375 pts
30K 2500 pts |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/04/21 15:09:39
Subject: Re:Minor Changes to Angels of Death
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Fiery Bright Wizard
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isn't kantor a chapter master not a captain? Am I missing something in the fluff as to why he's being placed in captain roles?
Beyond that, I don't think UM should have access to everything as, from what I've been told, there's non-codex strict formations in the book used by other chapters.
other than those 2 things, It doesn't seem to be all to extremely major changes, which is good.
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I'll never be able to repay CA for making GW realize that The Old World was a cash cow, left to die in a field. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/04/21 16:58:17
Subject: Minor Changes to Angels of Death
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Ollanius Pius - Savior of the Emperor
Gathering the Informations.
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You know, I was with you for the most part but after having some time to think about it?
I think that the Sternhammer should remain an Imperial Fists only Detachment.
The reasoning? Black Templars are radically different in their ways of war--it's not just the usage of Crusader squads, but the lack of Psykers and Devastators and the like--and the Crimson Fists have to deal with the whole Rynn's World aftermath.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/04/21 17:15:59
Subject: Re:Minor Changes to Angels of Death
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Chaplain with Hate to Spare
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Brennonjw wrote:isn't kantor a chapter master not a captain? Am I missing something in the fluff as to why he's being placed in captain roles?
Beyond that, I don't think UM should have access to everything as, from what I've been told, there's non-codex strict formations in the book used by other chapters.
other than those 2 things, It doesn't seem to be all to extremely major changes, which is good.
Crimson Fists deviate slightly from the Codex Astartes in that their Chapter Master as serves the role of the First Company Captain. And again, all of the other Battle Demi-Company formations and Auxiliary formations that allow a Captain (such as Shadow Force) to be swapped out for him. The Battle Demi-Company is the weird one. And it is much easier to add than to take away.
As for Ultras, they would still lack the ability to take a cheap auxiliary the way other Chapters can. Adding the Kauyon formations opens up possibilities, but is still fairly restrictive.
And Kan, I would be with you if Crimson Fists had their own Chapter Tactics. Then the Crimson Fists being in the same boat as the Black Templars would make sense. And the Sternhammer states it is available to all Imperial Fists Successors.
The fact Black Templars take some work is part of the reason it is mind-boggling that they didn't get unique rules beyond Warlord Traits. Even if they could make use of the Sternhammer, they would not have access to a bunch of its abilities due to having different Chapter Tactics. That they display completely different deployment patterns (which the Crimson Fists do not) should have meant that two of the 14 formations should have been for them. But, patterns do exist in their Crusades, which is going to allow me to get something written up for them. The Black Templars still make use of every unit in the Codex besides the Tactical Squad, just in different ways.
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5250 pts
3850 pts
Deathwatch: 1500 pts
Imperial Knights: 375 pts
30K 2500 pts |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/04/21 17:37:41
Subject: Re:Minor Changes to Angels of Death
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Ollanius Pius - Savior of the Emperor
Gathering the Informations.
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casvalremdeikun wrote: Brennonjw wrote:isn't kantor a chapter master not a captain? Am I missing something in the fluff as to why he's being placed in captain roles?
Beyond that, I don't think UM should have access to everything as, from what I've been told, there's non-codex strict formations in the book used by other chapters.
other than those 2 things, It doesn't seem to be all to extremely major changes, which is good.
Crimson Fists deviate slightly from the Codex Astartes in that their Chapter Master as serves the role of the First Company Captain. And again, all of the other Battle Demi-Company formations and Auxiliary formations that allow a Captain (such as Shadow Force) to be swapped out for him. The Battle Demi-Company is the weird one. And it is much easier to add than to take away.
Honestly, the Battle Demi-Company kinda makes sense when you think about it as the fact that Kantor doesn't have a huge number of officers serving under him like most Chapter Masters do.
As for Ultras, they would still lack the ability to take a cheap auxiliary the way other Chapters can. Adding the Kauyon formations opens up possibilities, but is still fairly restrictive.
Ultras can take plenty of cheap Auxiliaries. They're not lacking anything from the main Space Marine book, they just don't really have a "unique" detachment of their own.
And Kan, I would be with you if Crimson Fists had their own Chapter Tactics. Then the Crimson Fists being in the same boat as the Black Templars would make sense. And the Sternhammer states it is available to all Imperial Fists Successors.
Which makes sense as to why it doesn't include Kantor if you think about it.
By the time Kantor becomes a leader of the Crimson Fists, the Chapter is basically on its dying breath. They don't have the numbers to really do any of the "big stuff" like they would have before.
That said, the Pinion is available to Raven Guard Successors despite the fact that one of the few Raven Guard Successors mentioned in C: SM doesn't even use Assault Squads. They use massed Thunderfire Cannon Batteries and mechanized units to lure enemies into killzones for ambushes.
The fact Black Templars take some work is part of the reason it is mind-boggling that they didn't get unique rules beyond Warlord Traits. Even if they could make use of the Sternhammer, they would not have access to a bunch of its abilities due to having different Chapter Tactics. That they display completely different deployment patterns (which the Crimson Fists do not) should have meant that two of the 14 formations should have been for them. But, patterns do exist in their Crusades, which is going to allow me to get something written up for them. The Black Templars still make use of every unit in the Codex besides the Tactical Squad, just in different ways.
I hate to say it like this, but the Black Templars really should have been given their own book. They cause too many of these kinds of arguments where people start to point out the fact that BTs got a unique squad and Chapter Tactics but X Successor didn't.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/04/21 17:54:34
Subject: Re:Minor Changes to Angels of Death
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Chaplain with Hate to Spare
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Pedro was Chapter Master (and still acting First Company Captain) for about one hundreds years prior to Rynn's World. The Chapter structure listed in Angels of Death is what the Chapter looked like PRIOR to Rynn's World (all of the Captains besides Pedro and Captain Cortez due in the novel). The Chapter has worked its way back to roughly half strength. The Chapter's differentiation from the Imperial Fists is covered in their Warlord Traits. Otherwise they are very much still Imperial Fists at their core.
Templars could easily be covered in a few pages of White Dwarf. Give them a Detachment(Call it a Crusade), Core Formation(Fighting Company), and some unique Auxiliaries as well as appropriate ones from C:SM and Angels of Death.
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5250 pts
3850 pts
Deathwatch: 1500 pts
Imperial Knights: 375 pts
30K 2500 pts |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/05/06 06:11:02
Subject: Re:Minor Changes to Angels of Death
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Chaplain with Hate to Spare
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I have been dwelling on a few other things that need changes.
For one thing, the Psychic Disciplines need to be made available to the other Loyalist Space Marine factions. Same for Contemptor Dreadnoughts, Cataphractii Terminators, and Terminator Captains. They should all have a little box like what Forgeworld includes in their datasheets for stuff available to multiple Space Marine factions. Also, it is a little strange that the Contemptor Dreadnought can't take a Drop Pod. It can still go in a FA Drop Pod, but it can't take one as a Dedicated Transport.
Can anyone else see any issues that should probably be addressed?
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5250 pts
3850 pts
Deathwatch: 1500 pts
Imperial Knights: 375 pts
30K 2500 pts |
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