Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Maybe this has been discussed before, but the reserves rules seem a bit off to me. 

Current system:
Turn 2: 4+
Turn 3: 3+
Turn 4: 2+
Turn 5: 2+
Turn 6: 2+

Last Escalation game I played, I got almost everything in on turn 2.  In contrast, I've seen more than once that a unit doesn't come in at all.  It seems very wrong to me to pay points for a unit that you don't get to use even for a single turn.

So here's my tweak to fix it:
Turn 2: 5+
Turn 3: 3+
Turn 4: automatic

That way, it's unlikely that you'll get everything on one turn; yet you're guaranteed to have at least half the game to use all your units. 

This is especially important to those of us who use indirect ordnance (Basilisks, Whirlwinds, non-MH Defilers), which can't even fire on the turn they move onto the board. This way, you get two turns of potential shooting minimum.

I like it better than the current system. I would totally be down for it.

However I still think the best is still the 3rd edition variant rules written by Jervis. They were: you get half your reserve units on turn 2, and the other half on turn 3.

The only issue I ever had with that system was that it was a bit too predictable. I always liked adding a random element by pre-selecting your two reserves "halves" ahead of the game and then randomly rolling on turn 2 to see which half arrives on turn 2 and which half arrives on turn 3.

Hmmm...I like the idea of splitting reserves into two forces, and randomizing which half comes in first. But turn 2 seems too early, somehow. Maybe turns 3 and 4?

I'd like to see escalation to be more about foot troops running around to establish positions before the tanks/MCs/flyers/cavalry come in. Two turns would allow for more interesting maneuvering...

The only problem with the turn 3 idea is that it really hampers many slow units, especially if they are close combat oriented (like slow Tyranid MCs, for example). With a 50/50 chance of the game ending on turn 6, a unit that arrives on turn 3 has exactly 3 turns to make a difference in the game.

It really depends on whether you play that reserves come in from the "sides" of the deployment zone. If you do, then turn 3 is fine, as units coming in from the flank will still be in a good position to affect the game from the flanks. If you play that units only come on from the back board edge, then a turn 3 reserves rule really means many units will be rather useless coming on from reserves.

That's true, MCs would be nerfed for coming in on turn 4. Under the current rules, that's when my Tyrant tends to stroll onto the board

I would love to play that the side board edges counted for reserves deployment, but my local gaming group does not agree I think it would add a lot to the game. When I play IG, I generally hide my CHQ in a corner - I wouldn't be able to do that if vehicles were moving on from 12-15" up the side of the board!

What if you kept the current system but you just extended the game? For example, any time the reserves rule is used, the minimum game length becomes 8 turns? It means that the unpradictibility of when your troops come on stays there, but they don't end up being useless if they show up a bit late. You could also add in that the turn after they show up on 2+ (so trun 5), they could come in automaticly.

In general, I think people should be hosed for not using a lot of basic troops, but that's just me.  It would also help if GW would make basic troops better.

 

40k needs a lot of things but to be longer is not one of them!

I like the idea but I think it does end up making choices too easy for people, nids for example only have a couple of units that have to wait in reserves anyway, HT, Fex. Let me know if there are any others.

I would probably be down for a tweak like 2nd 4+/3rd 3+/4th 2+/ 5th Auto which would still make it so that to do well you still have to have a balanced list but are at least guaranteed to get everyone on the board.

Strangelooper,

I like your concept, clearly reserves creates problems and compromises a fair game and the points costing system.  I would gladly play by your new rules.  The absolute certainty of units arriving would also alleviate the "unit never comes on scenario" which is a significant detriment of the current rules.

Reserves is a problem for dual reasons however, this proposed rules change only addresses the one.  Reserves reduces the on board time of, and position, of units but because of its random element it also creates frequent player side imbalance when one side gets less units than the other (sometimes getting none).

Yakface's concept addresses both these issues, so that all units in reserve face the same position and time handicap and it is consistent for both sides.

Unfortunately further analysis likely should include the closely linked "Escalation" rules and their effect on game play with imbalanced settups.  Escalation making such incredibly lopsided settups easily possible given even average choices of army lists due to the composition of what ends up in reserve.  I'll leave the specualtion to any future poster who cares to take it up, as I think it's aproaching off topic.

Good proposal.

I was thinking a bit about this, and the thing is that when reserves are in play, you can play up to 9 turns, I have only done it once but it is possible.

I like random game length - it prevents the 'last-turn-objective-grab' nonsense. Fight every turn as though it was the end!

And in my experience, the last few turns of the game are the shortest, as most of both armies are dead or in combat (ie without a lot of options to ponder) by that point. So extending the number of turns won't extend the game time significantly.

I'd still rather have an 'auto-in' on turn 4 or 5, rather than just a 2+ for 9 turns. I have an uncanny ability to roll 1's, as evidenced by my 4-Plasma IG literal suicide squads (last time, I lost all 4 and also rolled a '1' to-wound with the one shot that hit).

Yak's idea seems to involve extra bookkeeping and decisions to be made before deployment, which would probably slow the game more than a couple of extra turns at the end would. And I just think that turn 2 is too early to bring half of the reserves on. The only point I see for Escalation is to give infantry a boost - give them a couple of turns to maneuver into good positions before the tanks come in. Turn 2 guaranteed 50% of reserves just lets the tanks get a better idea of how to avoid the infantry lascannons and/or draw a bead on a juicy target - it becomes an advantage to the tanks.