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Howya, It's my first post here so forgive me if I screw up a little bit. I have a question about the Howling Banshees' Banshee Mask.

In the rules its states that Howling Banshees always strike first in the first round of combat thanks to the affect of the mask. In the event that they hit someone else who always strike first like DE Witches with combat drugs or a Doom Siren they strike simultainiously.... No complaint or questions there.

What I was wondering is this:

Howling Banshees charge a squad of Jump Marines, attack first but don't kill them all. Combat is a draw. Next round we strike in inititive order and the combat is a draw again. THEN! I get charged by a squad of something that has a higher initative then my Banshees say... DE Inqubi with a master or something.

Do the Inqubi or any newcomer to the combat for that matter strike in initative order or does the Banshee mask affect them on their entrance and all my allocated strikes against them go first regardless of initative and the Space Marines still locked in combat?

Is the Mask on all the time and people just get used to the shock or is it activated when people jump in and attack? Thanks

Welcome to Dakka,

According to the Eldar Codex they only keep their bonus in the first round of the assault.
So seeing as the combat has lasted a turn they get no bonus from their masks.

Thats a damn good question dude- and Banesword- I dont have the books in front so it depends on the wording, but i dont think its as cut and dry as you make it (if as said that is the wording).

Its the first round of combat with the new enemies- so I dont see why the banshee masks would not work in this case (unless like other things you need to charge to do it).

I agree i think as long as you put your attacks against the new unit their banshee masks will take effect and they will strike first

It's not the first round of the assault for the Banshees though.

This sounds alot like if you have a squad in cover and it gets assaulted, it'll go at I10. If the assault is still ongoing and the squad in cover gets assaulted by a second unit while still engaged by the first, it will not get the benefit of I10.

It's indeed the second (or more) round of combat and so the banshees don't automatically strike first (though Initiative 5/6 should do the trick nicely most of the time).

Remember that when you consolidate (after you have righteously slauthered the mon-keigh) into a new unit, it is a new combat. And therefore strike first.

I've thought about this too but the wording is "The first round of EVERY Combat.." even if I get charged I get first strike - it leads me to believe that it's a constant thing that surprises everyone not used to/ ready for it. [Very annoying if you're riding into combat with them in a Wave Serpent for sure but effective in Close Quarter Combat]

I've gone both ways on this subject and I really can't think of something that totally pushes me over the fence in either direction perminantly [or even temporarily] It's annoying because I play against someone who regularly summons upwards of 50 deamons a game and it comes up alot. [Course, him being a dick he always insists that I'm slowed and don't know my army every time I bring it up.] [I also don't want any comments on why I play him :-)]

I'd just like to hear the arguments either way even though I'm sure it won't be settled. Thanks

Although there might be multiple units assaulting the Banshees at different times, the Banshees themselves are only ever in one single combat no matter how many units they spread their attacks across. That single combat only has one beginning and one end.

Just as they don't end their combat and sweeping advance after destroying only one of the units, they don't re-start combat and gain 'strikes first' after each subsequent unit charges them.

All of this seems to imply that if your Guardians are in CC with a unit of Wyches, Banshees charging in to help on a later turn don't get to strike first. It's not the first round of the combat. Is this right?

If my banshees charge into a close combat already in progress I still get my first strike, so why not the other way around?

Awesome rebuttals !
Personally the wording of "Every Combat" is pretty solid no?
Any comments from a dakka bigwig ?

Its the first round of combat from the Banshees POV, thats why.

Posted" by="" blue="" loki="" on="" 05/18/2006="" 4:00="" pm="">
Although there might be multiple units assaulting the Banshees at different times, the Banshees themselves are only ever in one single combat no matter how many units they spread their attacks across. That single combat only has one beginning and one end.

Just as they don't end their combat and sweeping advance after destroying only one of the units, they don't re-start combat and gain 'strikes first' after each subsequent unit charges them.

Blue loki speaks the truth.

It's not the first round of combat for the banshees.  Charging, being charged, having new opponents charge in, not of that makes any difference.  All that matters is whether it's the first round of combat for the banshees.

Well he is a quick flow chart to determine if its the first round of combat...

1) Are the banshees in combat?
If yes, go to question 2
if no, it doesn't matter because no combat is going on.

2) Were the banshees in combat in the previous assault phase?
if yes, then go to question 3.
If no, then it is the first round of combat.

3) Did the banshees do a sweeping advance last turn?
If yes, then it is considered a new combat and it is the first round.
if no then it is not the first round of combat.

Simple logic test.

I agree with Blue Loki.

It is possible to have our cake and eat it too in this case. When we have a rule that pertains to a particular unit and their first round of combat, we just have to look and see if it is that unit's first round of combat.


So two units are fighting in cover, and are charged by a third unit, does the defending unit in cover get the cover bonus?

No, because the defending unit (the one that would be getting the bonus) is not in it's first round of combat.


A Banshee unit charges an enemy unit already fighting in close combat, do they get to use their banshee mask effect?

Yes, because the banshee unit (the one that would be getting the bonus) is indeed entering it's first round of combat.

 

A Banshee unit is in its second round of combat and is charged by a new enemy unit, do they get to use their Banshee mask effect?

No, because the Banshee unit (the one that would be getting the bonus) is not in it's first round of combat.

 

You just have to look at the point of view of the unit that would be getting the bonus and determine if it is actually their first round of combat or not. Simple and easy.

 

Alright, I guess that makes sense - thanks