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I want to start a empowers children army. I'm looking at this as a list.


+++ Emporers children (2500pts) +++

++ Legiones Astartes: Crusade Army List (Age of Darkness) (2500pts) ++

+ HQ (205pts) +
Lord Commander Eidolon (205pts) Jump pack
+ Troops (290pts) +
The Kakophani of the Emperor's Children (145pts)
The Kakophani of the Emperor's Children (145pts)
+ Elites +
Contemptor-Cortus Class Dreadnought Talon
····Cortus Dreadnought (175pts) Kheres Pattern Assault Cannon, Kheres Pattern Assault Cannon
····Cortus Dreadnought (155pts) Chainfist with inbuilt twin-linked Bolter, Chainfist with inbuilt twin-linked Bolter
····Cortus Dreadnought (175pts) Kheres Pattern Assault Cannon, Kheres Pattern Assault Cannon
Palatine Blade Squad (345pts) Jump packs, 9x Palatine Warrior
Phoenix Terminator Squad (775pts)
Legion Spartan Assault Tank
+ Lord of War
Fulgrim the Illuminator (380pts)


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Any help would be awesome

How many models would this put on the field? I have a bit of a concern you might want some more bodies @ 2500 points.

Colour me unimpressed.

The 'Emperors Children' don't go for repeat unit types - book one and book two go into the force structure the EC use and they try to get in one of everything, no matter how gakky.

In battle they like leading imperial militia and solar auxillia forces, so a small, diverse warband with militia allies is ultra-fluffy.

Looks about 40 models? And only two troops choices of 10 models.

Remember in 30K, you do not have ATSKNF, and leadership break tests become critical when you only have 10 Legion Tactical Squad models with LD 8. Those are also the only two units you have that can secure an objective. I typically start with at least two 20 model squads, and then work from there.

In close combat, you always have to issue and accept a challenge, yet you really don't have anything in the troops squad to handle such a thing, and it's a bit overkill for Eidolon and Fulgrim.

All your Comtemptor Dreads have a max range of 24" with S6 assault cannons. Might want to rethink that arrangement, and figure out what exactly these guys are for. With three of them in the same squad, they will all have to shoot at the same target. You would probably be better served breaking this up into at least two squads. This squad at least has good anti-air, but they will have to foot slog across the table, and the range 24" S6 guns don't help. I'd say break the squad up, give the assault cannon guys drop pods (vs. flyers, they will be coming in on reserve as well), and the foot sloger a long range gun, like an Autocannon.

Your only anti-tank is the Spartan, and while it's difficult to take down, it will have a large bulls-eye on it as I'm sure that's how you plan to transport your Terminators and Primarch, right? Talk about all your eggs in one basket... LOL

Basically, I see no maneuverability or capability to deal with armor or move to an objective, and hold it. The jump pack squad will far out race everything else in the army, and get ripped to shreds. The Spartan will die on turn 1, turn 2 if you are lucky, and then you will be stuck with a melee unit that can't run, can't sweeping advance, and can't move through cover. Basically, sitting ducks. The Contemptors will have to foot slog across the table, and with 24" guns, won't be an issue for your opponent until after he has dealt with your Spartan tank. All your opponent has to do is kill the Spartan, then take out your troops and win by objectives unless you somehow shoot him off the table at that point (which I don't see how...).

To sum up: Get some more Legion Tactical Squad guys in there, preferably with some kind of transport, break up the Dread Talon and give 1-2 drop pods, and the other a long range weapon (autocannon or lascannon). The Jump Pack squad is OK, but try to kit out the Sergeant for close combat and leadership checks. I'd drop either Fulgrim or Eidolon to pay for the new stuff, and maybe look at a Praetor instead. A Legion Devastator squad would go a long way to improving your anti tank capability.

In 2500 points I'd definitely agree that you need more objective holders. Not necessarily troops, but if not, then Implacable Advance units.

Kakophoni are nice but limited. There's a specific rite of war which makes them devastating, but normally they're merely 'okay' - if you can hit a low-ish Ld unit with them, they're pretty tasty, but far from amazing.

Mobility is a key element for Emperor's Children. There's a reason you've got Crusader; speed is key. Not repeated hit and fade shenanigans like the White Scars, but straight to the face with one perfectly executed strike.


You can deal with the mobility (a bit) using Maru Skara - outflanking the Dreadnought Talon provides a 'quick hit' of close-quarter threat, and the Palatine Blades and Eidolon can back them up. That doesn't leave you a hell of a lot to survive one, potentially two shooting phases from a 2500 point army, though.

so what kind of load out should I make the dreds?

Should I take fulgrim or eidolon?

I was looking at assault marines with jump packs how would they do?

I am completely lost when it comes to 30k. I want to be fast into combat and hit first in combat how do I do this?

Drop the dreads they are useless to you, drop fulgrim your not playing a big enough game for him to do his job, use eidolon to get the third company elite ROW which since you have kakophani as troops i assume you already intend to use it, make sure you have a minimum of two 10 man squads three would be better all with a sergeant with artificer armnour and a phoenix spear. Drop the phoenix termies unless you really want to use them but to be honest dont your already low on bodies and they just arent survivable enough for your army without the spartan and to be honest you dont want it on the field anyway.
Eidolon obviously goes with the palatine blades for hopefully a turn 1 charge, they should have a few phoenix spears in the unit and to be honest maybe you should consider something like legion seekers in a rhino and a 5 man jetbike unit possibly with a legion champion with a power spear. and finally i would reccomend having an apothecary in each of your kakophani units.
Honestly if you want heavy weapons take a heavy support squad or militia allies because you are the Emperors Children and you want bodies on the field to cut things up or provide enough wound soaks to chuck melta bombs at anything that looks at you funny.