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Hey guys and girls,

As I continue to search for a Sigmar army that I like enough to stick with, I intend on using my Chaos Daemons from 40k as a Sigmar army to learn how to play That way the army is there, and whatever I buy for it to flesh it out ( its not a giant army by any standards..maybe 1500pts in 40k of mixed goods ) it's all usable in 40k so no loss.

So what im wondering is , what is people's experiences with Daemon armies in Sigmar ? Browsing the free Warscroll GW released when Sigmar dropped on Daemons, I see they act pretty noticeably different to how they did in 40k. However, I have no experience and no one at my local store plays them in Sigmar.

What games have you played ? Lists run ? Things learned ?

How does each God's mono lists play ? What do they excel at / suck at ?

At this stage the majority of my Daemon army is Tzeentch ( 1 kit bashed Lord of Change, 1 herald on Disc, 40 Horrors, 3 Screamers, 1 Burning Charriot, 2 Soul Grinders which are unpainted so could go anyway!) . With this, I am considering running mono Tzeentch.

From what i've seen in the Warscrolls, the Lord of Change has a nice ability (Infernal Gateway) potentially causing serious mortal wounds to some smaller units, and the Horrors act a little differently in that they now have a shooting attack rather than their 40k counterpart's psychic variant.

I am completely new to Sigmar and haven't even played a game yet, just observed a few.

Any thoughts ?

Thanks !

Tzeentch is very magic heavy and the majority of their units can be summoned.

You already have a good sized army by AoS standards. If you are playing by Generals Handbook points, the Lord of Change is about 340 and your 40 horrors are 400 points which puts you at 740 points alone there. Soul Grinders are up there point wise as well.

If you are going to go pure Tzeentch I would suggest some Flamers. They are fast and put out a lot of fire power. They are a little expensive though, both box cost and points wise.

Infernal gateway is great against all targets not just small units. The potential to erase a hero with one spell is huge in this game.

Advantages you have as a Deamon player is base 10 Bravery and your Icons can return models back into the unit on a battleshock roll of 1 which is going to be just the Pink Horrors.

The Lord of Change is actually only 260 and it is one of the best Casters in the game period.

But yeah, I agree with adding Flamers. They are very potent with a large squad despite how expensive it is.

With the command trait of +1 to hit, their damage becomes quite consistent.

I agree, my Flamers and Burning Chariot have been doing work. Tzeentch is one of the few armies in the game (and the only one in Chaos aside from Skaven Skryre) that can go mass ranged and do it well. They lack good frontline units other than just using Pink Horrors to screen, though. Soul Grinders are just ridiculous in this game - solid shooting and good assault with a stupid amount of wounds and high speed. Bring only 1 if any unless you want to lose friends

You'll definitely have a unique army - unlike 40k, there isn't a huge amount of shooting, but Tzeentch does it pretty well. Some armies might hate you, but you'll mostly fall apart in combat except the Grinder.

I play Tzeentch daemons in 40k and AoS.

The main difference is how summoning works, just summoning (as per open play) in AoS is as bad as people complain 40k summoning is. In matched play you cannot run a daemon factory. Summoning basically just gives you versatility.

Your DP's and LoC are not as powerful (in cc) as in 40k (relative to "normal troops") and the DP's especially have less going for them. Note; EVERYTHING in AoS is less survivable than most other systems/the damage output on everything is A LOT.

On the upside; you have normal shooting attacks (and mind bullets) and your horrors take longer to die (that's not saying much though), plus the changeling and blue scribes are pretty good. Oh, also flamers are significantly better and not nearly as situational (which IS saying much).

The army plays like you would expect (keep in mind that distance gets covered much faster in AoS), speedy units, DAKKA, loads of FUN tricks and you own the magic (your casters are good and you can steal spells and be better at casting them *evil laugh*). Something solid (like a grinder) would be nice though, but you can make do without (with some scheming and planning).

Daemon armies in general are buffed by heralds being in range (loci), which means you need to think about where your heroes go.

Good points raised here from all.

I honestly didn't know I had that many points worth, I am still in need of the Generals Handbook .

I have heard summoning used to be broken ( Looking at Undead Nagash summon spam I saw in store once... holy crap ) but has been fixed, though I dont know how it works now . I do love the idea of rolling 1's for battleshock tests, that's an awesome nod to demonic instability in 40k

So awesome at massed range if done properly but a lack of frontline units. I take it this means if say a bunch of Orruk boyz or Stormcasts run into your lines you will come out severely short ? What are people doing to counter this ? Taking another unit or two from another chaos faction and dropping them in here ? Like say blood reavers or something cheap and expendable ?

 Soldier0Fortune wrote:
I have heard summoning used to be broken ( Looking at Undead Nagash summon spam I saw in store once... holy crap ) but has been fixed, though I dont know how it works now

I've been experimenting with Fateweaver shenanigans.

Ensure double back to back turns when it comes to see who takes the initiative after having gone second last round.

Ensure a charge after a Verminlord Deceiver Teleport or a summoned Greater Daemon.

Ensure Archaon or a Mighty Lord of Khorne's instant death effect activates.

Possibilities abound.

 Lou_Cypher wrote:
I've been experimenting with Fateweaver shenanigans.

Ensure double back to back turns when it comes to see who takes the initiative after having gone second last round.

Ensure a charge after a Verminlord Deceiver Teleport or a summoned Greater Daemon.

Ensure Archaon or a Mighty Lord of Khorne's instant death effect activates.

Possibilities abound.

His power is really amazing... but 300 points is a lot to ask. A regular LoC is cheaper and has an amazing command ability. Unless you find that one abuse case per game, it feels really hard to justify taking him over a generic brother. And you can always find one, but it's a question between the generic usefulness or the tricky one use boost.

That's the fun thing, I always bring in Kairos and a Lord of Change. It may be 560 but that's nearly on par with high level monsters for the price of two.

The fact that with both around, they have four spells between them doesn't hurt the Rule of 1 too badly.

Kairos will know the Lord of Change's Infernal Gateway. So have Kairos pop a Balewind Vortex and you now have both Infernal Gateway and Gift of Chaos at 36" range.

If going second that round, take that opportunity to ensure a dual magic and shooting phase. Back to back Infernal Gateways and Gift of Chaos at that distance is just brutal.

The other Lord of Change sticks around 18" around Kairos for the Command Ability and support with Arcane Bolt and Mystic Shield.

I personally use them and the Changeling to cause havoc deep within the enemy lines immediately while Flamers take care of the softer targets.

Ghaz wrote:

 Soldier0Fortune wrote:
I have heard summoning used to be broken ( Looking at Undead Nagash summon spam I saw in store once... holy crap ) but has been fixed, though I dont know how it works now

Spoiler:

So if I am reading that correctly, you set aside while list-writing the number of points you wish to use to summon.

Now my question is, if you set aside say 200 points (purely as an example) , does this mean you can summon up to a total of 200pts per game in total, or that you can use 200pts per summoning session ?

I am assuming its that total for the duration of the game, but as I am completely inexperienced thought i'd ask

It'd be total for the duration of the game.

 Soldier0Fortune wrote:
So awesome at massed range if done properly but a lack of frontline units. I take it this means if say a bunch of Orruk boyz or Stormcasts run into your lines you will come out severely short ? What are people doing to counter this ? Taking another unit or two from another chaos faction and dropping them in here ? Like say blood reavers or something cheap and expendable ?

Chaos warriors, unless you want only daemons.

I don't bother with frontline units. Park the horrors in cover and shoot, if your opponent attacks them with something powerful, that thing will take a turn or 2 to get there and a turn or 2 to kill the horrors and take some losses from shooting (even better if it is not powerful). In short spread them out as distractions, and/or use a few to soften up your own attack.

This works for me because the rest of the army is fast and does a good amount of damage (flying monsters, screamers, flamers move 9'+shoot 18' and heralds on disc for the locus).
If he has troops to deal with the horrors easily on the other side of the board (or just away) fighting horrors, he is less able to deal with a fast moving assault.
If he ignores the horrors then they can harass his troops while they move to deal with your threat (you have the speed to make most armies do an awkward redeployment/choose where and what gets the worst of it).

I was intending on running pure Daemons, but I'll most likely end up mixing it as I am still stuck in 40k mode where your army is your army, no "Factions" haha. Gotta start opening my mind.

That is true about the flamers. I'll definitely be needing to invest in a few down the track. The image im getting in my mind of Tzeentch focused Daemons is that they can be truly annoying to your opponent with the sheer amount of Dakka being thrown down range at them, and their high maneuverability.

I've played my Tizz Daemons in AOS a few times now (2x 1000, 1x 2000), which you can read about over in batreps if you're interested. I can't say I've really enjoyed it all that much? My shooting does relatively nothing and then my stuff dies in combat, except for the Grinder, who lives a very long time while missing his loads of attaks over and over and over. Seriously, I only ever hit with the single ability that has a 3+ to hit (the daemonbone claw). It's really starting to bother me. But then I've also only played the one 2000 pointer where I could take all the shooty toys ... except it was against Ogres, so I never got to shoot them. Spoiler: Destruction armies are shockingly painful under the GBH

Honestly I need to play more games and try to play to the army's strengths a bit better - which at this point means shooting, as the magic part of the Chaos God of Magic isn't really working for me without the full lore we'll get with the Daemons / Daemons of Tzeentch battletome, as I lean heavily on Horrors for casting. I also need to get my Lord of Change built. Despite having really pathetic combat stats and a shockingly low 10 wounds, I need his casting ability to make me believe that Tizz can compete when it comes to magic. And holy crap, my army would have a command ability

But in all truth, I was so discouraged after Saturday's campaign game that I started building the Warherd I've had waiting in my closet. Reading this thread, it's clear I need to take a deep breath and finally build this damn LOC instead

EDIT1
Speaking of Greater Daemons of Tzeentch:

Messing with LOC lists in a meeting just now, and I'm at 1960 with no way to spend the remaining 40 ... unless I upgrade the LOC to Kairos. I've never really looked at his warscroll before - I don't like special characters nor am I very interested in his dice swap trick - but he looks to be a little bit hittier, with an ok spell (no free points so no spawn ), and the basic casting buffs the LOC has. Is it worth upgrading just cause? Or am I better off with the LOC because of Gateway + stealing spells + command ability? The list doesn't currently have any other casters besides Horrors, so Kairos doesn't get much out of borrowing other wizards' junk.

EDIT2
I'm thinking the LOC is better for me, between the Spell-Thief minigame, Gateway, command ability, etc. I also realized that if I drop 3 Flamers (*sad face*) I can fit in a Herald annnnnd go Cohort, mainly for the 6+ unit recycling (and giving the LOC 3 spells, especially once he starts stealing them).

- Salvage