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So I felt like having a go at changing Power From Pain again. The current system works and is kind of fluffy but not very involved or flavourful. I based this system on how Blood Tithe points work, and it would apply to both the main codex and the Haemonculus Covens supplement.

Power from Pain: For every enemy model with a Toughness value removed as a casualty, from play, or otherwise destroyed you gain a Pain Token. From the start of the second turn, before Reserve Rolls are made, and at the start of any subsequent turns, any number of Pain Tokens can be spent on any number of the following benefits that apply to all models with the Power From Pain special rule and last for the remainder of the game.

Special Rule Cost in Pain Tokens
Feel No Pain (6+) 2
Feel No Pain 4
Hatred 5
Rage 5
Furious Charge 4
Fearless 8
It Will Not Die 8
Eternal Warrior 10
Fear 2
Counter Attack 5
Crusader 2
Stubborn 6

Master of Pain: From the first turn that a model with this special rule is on the board, gain 1 extra Pain Token.

Father of Pain (Urien Rakarth): From the first turn that Urien Rakarth is on the board, gain 3 Pain Tokens.

So let me know what you think of the system, I'd very much welcom feedback on the Token cost of the special rules as I haven't put too much thought into that yet and whether the Master and Father of Pain rules are any good.

Do you mean "enemy model" or "enemy unit"? Seems to me it would be pretty easy to get most of these right off, just by dumping a few splinter cannons into a Guard blob or some Termagants or similar.

Other than that, I like this a fair bit. I would quibble with the cost of IWND, though. Only Grotesques, Haemonculi, Archons and Succubi care about that, and it's generally less valuable than FNP. On the other hand, one can have both, but on the gripping hand, T3 guys might well not survive to use it. I think I'd mark that down to only 4 tokens.

Now, if you want to operate off units destroyed rather than models - like Blood Tithe points - the costs probably need to come down a bit overall.

I actually like your system, but there are too many USRs. I'd cut them down to 6 or 7 rules max.
I also like the idea of gaining a token per non-vehicle "model" removed, but at that cost, you should make the PFP benefits only last 1 turn (just like Blood Tithes), but each rule only needs 1-3 Pain tokens.
Like this:

Feel No Pain - 3
Hatred - 1
Rage - 1
Furious Charge - 2
Counter Attack - 1
Fearless - 3

In this way, you need to keep killing each turn to keep the bonuses up, or save the Pain tokens for 1 devastating turn

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jade_angel wrote:
Do you mean "enemy model" or "enemy unit"? Seems to me it would be pretty easy to get most of these right off, just by dumping a few splinter cannons into a Guard blob or some Termagants or similar.

Other than that, I like this a fair bit. I would quibble with the cost of IWND, though. Only Grotesques, Haemonculi, Archons and Succubi care about that, and it's generally less valuable than FNP. On the other hand, one can have both, but on the gripping hand, T3 guys might well not survive to use it. I think I'd mark that down to only 4 tokens.

Now, if you want to operate off units destroyed rather than models - like Blood Tithe points - the costs probably need to come down a bit overall.

I expected a lot of adjustment would be needed on the Token costs for the rules. Definitely meant "per model", the biggest problem something like Blood Tithe or this kind of Power From Pain system has is dealing with elite armies where the unit and model count is pretty low, they tend to be tougher so it's much harder getting those racking up those kills, going per module makes it easier to get those Tokens rather than waiting until halfway through the game before you get anything. On the other hand horde armies are at a disadvantage, I really don't think there's a way to fairly balance it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Galef wrote:
I actually like your system, but there are too many USRs. I'd cut them down to 6 or 7 rules max.
I also like the idea of gaining a token per non-vehicle "model" removed, but at that cost, you should make the PFP benefits only last 1 turn (just like Blood Tithes), but each rule only needs 1-3 Pain tokens.
Like this:

Feel No Pain - 3
Hatred - 1
Rage - 1
Furious Charge - 2
Counter Attack - 1
Fearless - 3

In this way, you need to keep killing each turn to keep the bonuses up, or save the Pain tokens for 1 devastating turn

-

I inlcuded a long list of USR's for customisation and usability to a variety of builds, the idea was not so that an army can be supercharged easily but to take the abilities that are most useful to your style of army or at that particular time. Your list for instance heavily favours assault builds but if someone doesn't want to rely too much on Incubi, Coven or Wych Cult units will struggle to get much use out of it.

I deliberatly set it as being for the rest of the game to represent the fluff of the DE getting stronger the longer a battle goes on feeding of the pain and misery. I haven't read the KDK book but Blood Tithe feels more like a short term boon from Khorn so such a system doesn't feel appropriat to DE. Like I said, Token costs for the USR's would defintiely need to be adjusted.

I had the idea of three different PFP charts for Kabalite, Wych Cult and Haemonculus Coven units. When I originally hatched this idea, it was based on turn progression like the current one rather than tokens, but I think it could be translated.

Kabalites:

1) FNP 6+
2) FNP 5+
3) Preferred Enemy
4) Counter-Attack
5) Crusader
6) Fearless

Wych Cults:

1) FNP 5+
2) Hatred
3) Furious Charge
4) Rage
5) Crusader
6) Fearless

Covens:

1) Fear
2) Fearless
3) IWND
4) Zealot
5) FNP 4+
6) Eternal Warrior

Obviously, it needs some tweaking and ad-hackery in addition to conversion to token costs, but...