Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hey All!

So now with the advent of the General's Handbook's points system, I've been looking through some of the points total to see how it's affected my beloved dwarves (I refuse to call them Duardin). Longbeard's as Battleline troops is a nice compliment, but I did feel some of our other units felt a bit overpriced (Hammerers, Artillery, Irondrakes, Ironbreakers).

What do you guys think? I'm getting the feeling my dwarves will only be competitive with the addition of other "armies" within the Grand Order Alliance.

 IronMaster wrote:
Hey All!

(I refuse to call them Duardin).

I respect your opinion but please don't say you refuse to call them Duadin. After all the AoS hate we have been getting. AoS is finally getting really positive now, a lot of the negativity is gone. If you refuse to say Duradin fine, but don't bring in any negativity by saying "you refuse to call them that". That is all I ask.

After all do we really see Imperial Guard anymore in 40K forums? It's almost all Astra Miliatrium or AM now instead of IG. To refuse to call them Duradin just seems petty now. Again, I respect your opinion and if you want to call them dwarfs still, great, but just don't say "i refuse to call them by any other name". I believe we all had our fill of negativity from what AoS did.

Saying you refuse to call them something is hardly negative. Calling it a moronic name change you will not use is negative.

I don't know what forums you look at I barely see AM.

*pissing match initiated.......

Comparisons of names that are GW IP aside, the duadin/dwarfs (There is a faction called dwarfs still fyi.)
The hammerers are 20 points a model that gets you:
4+ save
2 attacks
3+/3+ to hit and wound
-1 rend

They also can easily ignore battleshock with a hero within 16" and halve battleshock effects when they do occur.

That is insanely tough unit, 20 points a model is pretty spot on....

Plus, Hammerers get some nice buffs from other elements of the army.

Presuming you'll want them to hold the middle of the table, a Thorek Ironbrow will likely be giving them 3+ saves, and functional immunity to battleshock. That's nice, and as others have said, they're punchy too.

As for Artillery being over-costed... yeah.... no. :-p Trust me, in practice, Dwarf Cannons with a Cogsmith/Burlokkson next to them are one of the most brutal things in AoS and demand being responded to. If you opponent lacks their own long range shooting or "poppers" to dismantle the Cannon-crew, they will crush an opponent over the course of a game.

Dwarves are actually quite strong right now.

My first thoughts are Cogsmiths are literally pointless unless you need a second Grimm Burloksson, because Mr Burloksson is just all around better in every way!

I have some Dwarf allies in my Freeguild army and that consists of Grimm Burlok, a cannon and a unit of Thunderers. The cannon hardly ever misses with the rerolls so it's well worth the 100 points - plus the extra range he gives the Thunderers is nice too.

Otherwise I don't have too much experience with Dwarves.

Oh I also have 10 Fyreslayers (Vulkite Bezerkers) in my list but I don't find them very effective (and sadly they will be relagated to "narrative" games once I have a painted replacement).

I see your point on the Hammerers.

Do you think it would be stronger as a unit of 10 or go whole hog and go for a block of 20? (400 some points now I believe).

I don't currently own a Thorek so I'll have to try and find one to pick up.

I like my cannons but my dice rolls don't always give me the greatest effect. Pound for Pound I tend to favor the Organ gun, especially for the points range now.

Because of pile-in (which frequently people misplay... units already base-to-base can't move to make room for friends), and melee ranges, Age of Sigmar tends to like units deployed wide. As such, a big unit of 20 could control a large chunk of the middle-table.

I've been thinking of doing the same, but as I want to go more shooty, i'll probably run 10, and then have Irondrakes right behind them, advancing as a gun-line.

Edit: Oh, and if your cannon is under-performing, either let bad dice run their course, or try them with Burloksson/Cogsmith. The value he adds is crazy and a couple cannons with him in between are just one of the scariest things most players will come across. :-p I'm convinced they limited artillery to 4 at 2000pts, strictly because of said Dwarven Cannons. :-p

One thing that blew my mind with pile-ins recently is if you are 7" away from the enemy and roll an 7 on your charge, don't move right up into base contact, instead stop 1/2" away. It's a successful charge, and when you get to pile-in you can then move an additional 3". You only need to finish that pile in closer to the closest enemy model, so you wouldn't just move that 1/2" but instead be able to get in deep and open up space for the next rank to get in range too.

I have had a number of games and find the new dispossessed good fun. They are much more mobile than in the past due to being able to move and shoot, being base movement 4 with a reliable 4" move, being able to shoot into combat (what I mean by this is that in previous editions Dwarf armies would often castle as far back as possible because you needed as many chances to fire your guns as possible - being able to shoot into combat opens up actually choosing to move into combat in AoS!).

They are an army though that relies very heavily on synergies. Hammerers seem expensive until you have them in the battalion, with the King's command ability, with an additional -1 rend, re-rolling 1's to wound. With these stacked up I have beaten equal numbers of Chaos Warriors, deleted Blood reavers, smashed War Altars, killed Lords of Khorne. Similarly Iron Drakes are good, but stack them up and with 5 models I have decimated White Lions, killed Phoenixes etc.

War machines are good, bordering on broken with a cogsmith. They are an answer to a lot of difficult questions - massed elite infantry? Cannon them. Monster? Cannon them. Sneaky wizard? Cannon them.

The army does have weaknesses. Although they are more mobile they lack in faction access to some of the speed or mobility available to other factions (Sylvaneth can teleport, Ironjawz get battalions focused on movement, chaos can do pure mounted armies, Death can summon) which makes objective games a bit harder. Also you will lose models, sometimes at an alarming rate, due to only being one wound models.

Overall my experience has been that I have enjoyed playing dwarfs more in Age of Sigmar than any edition since 4th.

Love my DWARVES. I also refuse to call them any other name then dwarves......and I love AOS!

My favorite combo is Bugman and 20 quarrelers.

They always seem to give people a headache and survive most games. Using the terrain and waiting until the end of the game to get them into melee causes my opponent heartache all game.

Do they go after them and pull a unit or two from something else? Do they try and avoid and keep away from them to attack other things on the board?

I do find picking off the opponents magic or artillery first with the rangers is key.

Playing my first AoS game tonight with the new GHB point system, I will post back with feedback.

I am excited though, I just couldn't handle my friends Seraphon with the old summoning rules. I feel like I got a chance now. It should be a good game.

Hammerers and artillery have always been my all stars in AoS and previously in WHFB. Their points seem OK to me at initial impression. Main difference is unless I am playing a 3000 points game I probably will never field more than 20 Hammerers anymore, so I got 10 that will pretty much always be on the bench.

A lot of other armies have ways to make other units battleline if they specialize in that faction, I was surprised dwarfs didn't have any of that with at least quarrellers and thunderers. Oh well though...doubt it matters in the long run. In AoS I have not had much luck with quarrellers until I did what mDaro mentioned and combine 20 of them with bugman. That was a whole new ball game. They are pretty much an auto-take in 2000 point games and above.

 Rezyn wrote:
Playing my first AoS game tonight with the new GHB point system, I will post back with feedback.

I am excited though, I just couldn't handle my friends Seraphon with the old summoning rules. I feel like I got a chance now. It should be a good game.

Hammerers and artillery have always been my all stars in AoS and previously in WHFB. Their points seem OK to me at initial impression. Main difference is unless I am playing a 3000 points game I probably will never field more than 20 Hammerers anymore, so I got 10 that will pretty much always be on the bench.

A lot of other armies have ways to make other units battleline if they specialize in that faction, I was surprised dwarfs didn't have any of that with at least quarrellers and thunderers. Oh well though...doubt it matters in the long run. In AoS I have not had much luck with quarrellers until I did what mDaro mentioned and combine 20 of them with bugman. That was a whole new ball game. They are pretty much an auto-take in 2000 point games and above.

On your later point... I think most of us expect Irondrakes and Hammerers will end up being "Battleline if Allegiance: Steamhead Duardin" in the next couple of months.

First battle with new points from GHB. 1500 dwarfs vs 1500 seraphon. First time in 8-10 games dwarfs actually won. Before the summoning was just too much. Much different now.

Hammerers and Artillery were still all stars.

I took longbeards, belegar, and ungrim though for their triple synergy. Longbeards used ability to let belegar(not general) to use command ability. So ungrim gave hammerers +1/+1 hit/wound giving them an amazing 2+/2+, then belegar gives them +1 attack. Thats 3 attacks each hitting on 2+/2+. They were beast.

His saurus guard had rerolling 2+ saves ignoring rends of -1, which made the game ridiculously painful. They were next to impossible to kill. Next time, skink priest dies first.

 Rezyn wrote:
First battle with new points from GHB. 1500 dwarfs vs 1500 seraphon. First time in 8-10 games dwarfs actually won. Before the summoning was just too much. Much different now.

Hammerers and Artillery were still all stars.

I took longbeards, belegar, and ungrim though for their triple synergy. Longbeards used ability to let belegar(not general) to use command ability. So ungrim gave hammerers +1/+1 hit/wound giving them an amazing 2+/2+, then belegar gives them +1 attack. Thats 3 attacks each hitting on 2+/2+. They were beast.

His saurus guard had rerolling 2+ saves ignoring rends of -1, which made the game ridiculously painful. They were next to impossible to kill. Next time, skink priest dies first.

Cool, sounds like a good game and agreed on unrestricted summoning being potentially silly.

Re. the Saurus guard, did you have a Runesmith? Chucking an additional rend -1 on to get to -2 rend should help beat them up.

Davor wrote:

 IronMaster wrote:
Hey All!

(I refuse to call them Duardin).

I respect your opinion but please don't say you refuse to call them Duadin. After all the AoS hate we have been getting. AoS is finally getting really positive now, a lot of the negativity is gone. If you refuse to say Duradin fine, but don't bring in any negativity by saying "you refuse to call them that". That is all I ask.

After all do we really see Imperial Guard anymore in 40K forums? It's almost all Astra Miliatrium or AM now instead of IG. To refuse to call them Duradin just seems petty now. Again, I respect your opinion and if you want to call them dwarfs still, great, but just don't say "i refuse to call them by any other name". I believe we all had our fill of negativity from what AoS did.

W0t

I almost never see Astra Militarum being used by anybody but brand new players, and even then, the title usually refers to it as AM/IG because the vast majority of people still refer to them as the Imperial Guard. Heck, even Games Workshop still do it.

Duradin are Dwarfs. If you say Dwarf then everybody knows you mean Duradin and vice versa.

 Arbitrator wrote:

Davor wrote:

 IronMaster wrote:
Hey All!

(I refuse to call them Duardin).

I respect your opinion but please don't say you refuse to call them Duadin. After all the AoS hate we have been getting. AoS is finally getting really positive now, a lot of the negativity is gone. If you refuse to say Duradin fine, but don't bring in any negativity by saying "you refuse to call them that". That is all I ask.

After all do we really see Imperial Guard anymore in 40K forums? It's almost all Astra Miliatrium or AM now instead of IG. To refuse to call them Duradin just seems petty now. Again, I respect your opinion and if you want to call them dwarfs still, great, but just don't say "i refuse to call them by any other name". I believe we all had our fill of negativity from what AoS did.

W0t

I almost never see Astra Militarum being used by anybody but brand new players, and even then, the title usually refers to it as AM/IG because the vast majority of people still refer to them as the Imperial Guard. Heck, even Games Workshop still do it.

Duradin are Dwarfs. If you say Dwarf then everybody knows you mean Duradin and vice versa.

Wow, it's a good job there probably isn't much call for SJW's in the mortal realms - that sentiment would definitely be considered "problematic".