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Whatup guys and gals,

I`ve always loved the Raptor models but could not make myself consider them as a viable option.
Thats completely changed since the Raptor Talon came out, they can charge from deepstrike!!! are you serious??!!! Even Warp Talons become viable with this!!! AWESOME!!!!
Sure there's the Chaos Lord taxe but he does come with a free jumppack which is decent and he's a great choice for the Burning Brand.

This list is maxing out on Gifts of Mutation just cause its fun and maybe getting a extra deamon prince from a lowly champion would be nice.

I've always seen the Black Mace Deamon Prince and the Juggerlord with Axe of Blind Fury as a super beasts, so I'm squeezing them in.

So heres the list:


- Lord of the Black Crusade -
275 Deamon Prince - Mark of Nurgle - Wings - Power Armor - Gift of Mutation - The Black Mace

- Chaos Warband -
180 Chaos Lord - Mark of Khorne - Juggernaught of Khorne - Sigil of Corruption - Gift of Mutation - Axe of Blind Fury - Veteran of the long War
170 5x Chaos Bikers - Mark of Khorne - 2x Plasmagun - Icon of Wrath - Gift of Mutation - Veteran of the long War (Juggerlord goes here)

154 3x Terminator - Mark of Tzeentch - 3x Combi Melta - 2x Power Fist - Champion: Gift of Mutation - Lightning Claw - Veteran of the long War

186 6x Havoc - Mark of Nurgle - 4x Lascannon - Gift of Mutation - Veteran of the long War
85 5x Chaos Warriors - Veteran of the long War - Gift of Mutation
85 5x Chaos Warriors - Veteran of the long War - Gift of Mutation


- Raptor Talon -
175 Chaos Lord - Mark of Nurgle - Jump Pack - Burning Brand of Skalatrax - Sigil of Corruption - Lightning Claw - Power Fist - Veteran of the long War
195 8x Raptors - Mark of Nurgle - 2x Meltagun - Veteran of the long War (Raptor Lord goes here)
140 5x Raptors - Mark of Nurgle - 2x Meltagun - Melta Bomb - Veteran of the long War
140 5x Raptors - Mark of Nurgle - 2x Meltagun - Melta Bomb - Veteran of the long War
214 6x Warp Talons - Mark of Nurgle - Veteran of the long War

Total 1999

I have plenty of options for heavy Vehicules with all the deeptstriking Meltagun/bomb and the Lascannons, likewise this is good against monstrous creatures especially with the jugger lord and deamonprince to add to this.
Close combat is super solid and shooty lists will be caught by my 4-5 deepstriking units that charge after shooting heavily.
The Deamon Prince is without spells since he wouldnt have enough warpcharge to really do much and wasting a spell on the crap nurgle spell lists is annoying and expensive for this guy, this way he doesnt care about shooting and can get a 2+ Jink save every turn.
He and the juggerlord are just charging forward to distract the opponent probably hidding behind LoS blocking cover for the first turn.
I wanted to add a sixth Havoc to hopefully make the lasccannon last longer, hopefully I can find a nice far away ruin to hide in for them and shoot using their long range to avoid getting shot back at.

I know that I have no flyer defense which is a problem, I should try to find the points to get a Heldrake Terror Pack but cant seem to find enough without destroying the list. perhaps you guys could help me with that.


what do you think?










Automatically Appended Next Post:
So I looked into this some more and I could add the Heldrakes in like this:

- Lord of the Black Crusade -
275 Deamon Prince - Mark of Nurgle - Wings - Power Armor - Gift of Mutation - The Black Mace

- Chaos Warband -
180 Chaos Lord - Mark of Khorne - Juggernaught of Khorne - Sigil of Corruption - Gift of Mutation - Axe of Blind Fury - Veteran of the long War
170 5x Chaos Bikers - Mark of Khorne - 2x Plasmagun - Icon of Wrath - Gift of Mutation - Veteran of the long War (Juggerlord goes here)

154 3x Terminator - Mark of Tzeentch - 3x Combi Melta - 2x Power Fist - Champion: Gift of Mutation - Lightning Claw - Veteran of the long War

160 5x Havoc - Mark of Nurgle - 4x Lascannon - Veteran of the long War
75 5x Chaos Warriors - Veteran of the long War
75 5x Chaos Warriors - Veteran of the long War


- Raptor Talon -
135 Chaos Lord - Mark of Nurgle - Jump Pack - Burning Brand of Skalatrax - Power Fist - Veteran of the long War
155 6x Raptors - Mark of Nurgle - 2x Meltagun - Veteran of the long War (Raptor Lord goes here)
140 5x Raptors - Mark of Nurgle - 2x Meltagun - Melta Bomb - Veteran of the long War
140 5x Raptors - Mark of Nurgle - 2x Meltagun - Melta Bomb - Veteran of the long War

- Heldrake Terror Pack -
170 Heldrake - Baleflamer
170 Heldrake - Baleflamer

Total 1999

Basicly its removing the Warptalon unit, 2x Raptors, the sixth Havoc, 3 gifts of mutation from CSM & Havos units plus some of Raptor lords toys (the sigil and lightning claw)

I think this is maybe better since the list is still basicly the same (albeit a bit weaker and less fun due to fewer Gifts of mutations) but now it has flyer defense through awesome Heldrakes.


Which list is better Dakka?

with all the melta squads. I would swap the havocs to autocannons and that frees up 60pts if im correct. that gets you the SoC and LC back on the jump lord plus 20pts on whatever else you want.

the lord really needs that invul

thats a good idea, altough this only saves me 40pts instead of 60pts its probably still very worth it, too bad too cuz an extra Raptor model for the Lords unit would have been great.

thanks Scoutsniper

So i was also considering how to increase this list to a 2500pts list and a Renegade Knight is a very nice way to up the powerlevel. Im giving it all the shooty toys since in close combat even without a D-weapon he still stomps well enough for swarms and his str 10 can still allow him to smash vehicules that get too close and that I dont want to shoot.

Plus my army is extremely CC potent so more shooting is more usefull I think.

here is the list



- Forsworn Knight Detachment - 480
480 Renegade Knight - Stormspear Rocket Pod - 2x Avenger Gatling Cannon & Heavy Flamer

- Lord of the Black Crusade - 275
275 Deamon Prince - Mark of Nurgle - Wings - Power Armor - Gift of Mutation - The Black Mace

- Chaos Warband - 769
180 Chaos Lord - Mark of Khorne - Juggernaught of Khorne - Sigil of Corruption - Gift of Mutation - Axe of Blind Fury - Veteran of the long War

170 5x Chaos Bikers - Mark of Khorne - 2x Meltagun - Icon of Wrath - Gift of Mutation - Veteran of the long War

120 5x Havoc - Mark of Nurgle - 4x Autocannon - Veteran of the long War

75 5x Chaos Warriors - Veteran of the long War
75 5x Chaos Warriors - Veteran of the long War

149 3x Terminator - Mark of Tzeentch - 3x Combi Melta - 2x Power Fist - Champion: Gift of Mutation - Power Sword - Veteran of the long War

- Raptor Talon - 635
175 Chaos Lord - Mark of Nurgle - Jump Pack - Burning Brand of Skalatrax - Sigil of Corruption - Lightning Claw - Power Fist - Veteran of the long War
180 7x Raptors - Mark of Nurgle - 2x Meltagun - Melta Bomb - Veteran of the long War
140 5x Raptors - Mark of Nurgle - 2x Meltagun - Melta Bomb - Veteran of the long War
140 5x Raptors - Mark of Nurgle - 2x Meltagun - Melta Bomb - Veteran of the long War

- Heldrake Terror Pack - 340
170 Heldrake - Baleflamer
170 Heldrake - Baleflamer

Total 2499


This seems like a very solid 2500pts, What do you think Dakka?

Whoops... there doesn't seem to be anything here.

There are indeed quite a few points in the Deamon Prince, Juggerlord and Raptorlord, 630pts to be precise which is a lot for a 2000pts list, seems better for the 2500pts one I guess.

The deamon prince can handle almost any close combat threat and his ini allows him to do this without any retaliation, his Ws mean most things need a "5" to hit him if they did manage to survive. its actually capable of taking out a full Wraitlord on his own before it can do anything, odds are actualy very good if it took a couple wounds before.

Ive always been a close combat kind of guy and this list is no exception.

I would probably keep him on the ground and just 2+ jink my way out of enemy fire maybe stay far away first turn or behind LoS blocking terrain until my raptors can cause chaos and tie up the shooters then get closer.

I have not played with him at all yet as I am just starting my chaos army really (mostly a Nids player) but my understanding is that he can make his points very well if well supported.
I avoided making him more expensive by not making him a psyker to avoid puting too many eggs in that basket.
the gift of mutations + extra rolls on chaos boon table due to detachment benefits could make him tougher too

Here's my biggest deal -- you have no reserves manipulation or Psychic Defense.

At 2000pts and at 2500, you need those units in the field pronto. Instead of using the Terror Pack, why not use an Air Superiority Detachment from Death from the Skies? This gets any of your reserves units in on a 2+ and then also allows BOTH of your Heldrakes in on a 2+, assuming your opponent is not using Flyers!

Gift of Mutation is fluffy, but typically not worth 10 pts -- you're missing out on 40pts which could be used in better places.

Raptor Talon should really have a Chaos Lord with the Murder Sword. You choose what you're going to charge, why not choose how killy your Lord is? If you keep the Lords cheap, and use the Raptors to tie up squads, I think it's a more effective use. Even with Mark of Nurgle, they just aren't terribly effective.

You have literally no psychic defense, and the biggest part of Traitor's Hate is how much more effective Psychic Powers have become.

I would also consider changing to Black Legion instead of plain vanilla Chaos, you get VotLW free anyways through the Black Crusade, and there are a few items that could be super useful, for example -- the Hand of Darkness.

If you're gonna do a Raptor Talon, I still think you should try to take advantage of 1st turn charges the book gives you, and get a Dimensional Key in there.

Drop MoK on the bikers, take 3men, 2 meltas, and objective secured.

Take some Rhinos for your Chaos Marines and Havocs, Objective Secured Rhinos are AWESOME.

Interesting proposal there rusty4tw.

I like the idea of the MurderSword on the Raptorlord, this does mean that he doesnt get the burning brand though which is too bad but this could save me about 30pts(I would still need a meltabomb to help against MC and vehicules)...to be considered, definitely.

you also allowed me to notice that the Gift of Mutation does not roll twice on the table for the Chaos Warband units as I though it did... Thats too bad and would certainly make me reconsider where to put those points.

The Bikers are more of a choice, I know I made them more expensive than needed but they are the delivery system for the Juggerlord and more models means a better chance at him surviving to do his thing, thay also give him a better chance at charging successfully and +1 str on the charge due to the Icon which can certainly be very usefull, they can pull their own weignt in CC too, plus I converted a bunch of awesome looking bikers and I want to see them perfom.

I dont have the death from the skies codex so I didnt know there where such options as the air superiority detachment, I though my only option for some reserve manipulation was going to be by getting a lucky roll for master of ambush in the warlords strategic traits. My opponents usually have 1-2 flyers so this might not work overly well if I look at your comment and what I can find on the internet then I would potentially just lose the terror pack upgrades for no benefits at all.

How do the Raptor pack have an option for 1st turn charge? I missed that.


As for the psychic defense I still get a few dispel dices. The new spells certainly are nice but telepathy and biomacy was already nice. Getting some psyker I find is a question of getting a lot or none, another list I will make will have a lot.

Its not the Raptors which grant turn1 charges, it is the possibility through Sorcerers Infiltrated with Master of Ambush Warlord Trait.

A Sorcerer who gains the Soul Switch power, and is equipped with a humpback can nearly guarantee first turn charges from anywhere on the board. First turn charges with a Lord who has the Dimensional Key and a power weapon will basically guarantee activation, and then you just need to ensure your reserves come in on time, that's what the Air Superiority does.

interesting combo there, to have a decent chance I would need 2 sorcerers lvl3 to get the soulswitch power.

whats the humpback though? still relatively new to chaos so some of these combos are new to me.

a humpback is a jumppack with autocorrect on

lol, ok now I understand the sentence.

to get master of ambush you would need Huron Blackheart, if we add the Dimension key and minimum 2 Sorcerer if you want a decent chance of getting the soulswitch power, then this combo starts to get expensive.

its sounds fun but its a very different list.


As for the Air Superiorty detachment I dont know how worth it it is since it depends on my opponent not having any flyers and where I play my opponents have flyer at least 8-9 times out of 10. I can still have Air superiorty with + 1 or -1 to all reserve rolls without that specific detachment as long as I'm playing the death from the skies rules, the air superiorty detachment allows +2 or -2 but being as the roll is a 3+ normally, +2 is useless so the air superiorty detachment only gives objective secured (if hovering) and one roll for both heldrakes to come out of reserve which I dont think makes up for losing the terror pack bonuses.

I think you should read the Terror Pack bonuses again. You are literally tossing away the chance to make sure 20% of your army comes in when you want it to for what?

"Within 12" of one Heldrake, -1 LD, within 12" of 2 Heldrakes, -2" and also, "Perform a Vector Strike vs a Gone to Ground/Pinned/Falling Back, etc"

What leadership shenanigans does your list have to take advantage of this reduced leadership, instead of making sure 20% or more of your units RELIABLY come in on time? The second rule is nearly impossible to complete because:

A) Gone to Ground happens in Shooting, Vector Strike happens in Movement.
B)Pinned happens in Shooting, Vector Strike happens in Movement
C)Falling Back happens rarely in the opponents Assault phase, and most units INSTANTLY regroup, and are no longer Falling Back.

The Terror Pack is a great idea, but the rules are flawed. The Air Superiority is Superior in every way for your list, ESPECIALLY since you want to take a Raptor Talon. Remember, if your opponent has the first turn, and his Flyers come out of reserves, you get the +2-2 to your reserve rolls.