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I'm just getting into HH with some friends, and I've decided to dive in with the XXth. I never really considered any others, honestly. It took me a little while of reading all over the internets and playing around and mulling over the different units, but I feel like I've begun to hit on some lists I do like. I've made a few, using Headhunter Leviathal, Sacrificial Offering, Coils of the Hydra, and a little 500pt list to get me started. Coils is the most challenging one for me to come to grips with-- it seems as if every single unit needs to be carefully worked into the Rite's restrictions; one doesn't want to waste Mutable Tactics completely on Infiltration just to take a few key units here or there, but one also doesn't want to be tied to a fleet of Rhinos.... Anyway, I was hoping to get some feedback on the following, and on a question related to Mutable Tactics, Master of Ambush, and the manner of their interaction with the The Coils of the Hydra.

First, the question: I'm sure everyone's aware of the wording quandary when it comes to using Mutable Tactics (MT) with Coils of the Hydra (Coils): MT gives Infiltrate to a swathe of units which would not otherwise be legal choices in a Coils list, but then it does so technically well after the part where one builds the list, which means that all such choices should remain illegal, right? But FW seem to have responded to a few queries on the subject with the statement that one can, in fact, use MT to make lots of units legal in a Coils list.

That's cool; moving along with that assumption, here's my question: since MT has Infiltration as one of many options, to be picked at the time one rolls for Warlord Traits; and since MT is able to be used to [retroactively] make certain units in a Coils list legal where they otherwise would not be; and since Master of Ambush (MoA) is a Warlord Trait, obviously taken at the same time as one picks Infiltration from MT, and MoA also grants Infiltration in a similar fashion; and since the Alpha Legion character Autilon Skorr allows one to pick a Strategic Warlord Trait, instead of rolling at random....

...is it reasonable to assume that, if Autilon Skorr is chosen as your Warlord, you may pick MoA as your Warlord Trait, and use it's ability to grant Infiltration (chosen at the same time as MT are chosen, and doling out Infiltration in a similar fashion) to units which do not otherwise have it, and therefore make them legal in a Coils list when they would otherwise not be??

I know, that was super-long-winded. Just trying to lay it out as clear as possible! Hehe. Hope it worked.

I'm assuming that yes, Autilon Skorr can be used to give units Infiltrate with Master of Ambush, and therefore make them retroactively legal choices for a Coils of the Hydra list-- exactly in the same way Mutable Tactics can. If that turns out to not be the case, then this list probably isn't that good....

Okay, on to the list! Hopefully people agree with my assumption above and can just move quickly to commenting on the list. Hopefully...!

THE LIST

Points: 3,500
Rite of War: The Coils of the Hydra

HQ: Autilon Skorr (Warlord, Master of the Legion) = 125
HQ: Armillus Dynat = 200
HQ: Damocles Command Rhino = 100

Elites: Legion Destroyer Squad (9 Destroyers w/ Melta Bombs, Venom Spheres, 2 Missile Launchers; Sergeant w/ Artificer Armour, Phosphex Bomb, Lightning Claw, Power Dagger) = 390
Elites: Legion Rapier Weapons Battery (3 Rapier Laser Destroyers) = 165

Troops: Legion Tactical Squad (9 Marines; Sergeant w/ Artificer Armour, Lightning Claw, Melta Bomb, Power Dagger; Rhino w/ Multi-Melta, Hunter-Killer Missile) = 215
Troops: Legion Tactical Squad (9 Marines; Sergeant w/ Artificer Armour, Lightning Claw, Melta Bomb, Power Dagger; Rhino w/ Multi-Melta, Hunter-Killer Missile) = 215
Troops: Legion Tactical Squad (9 Marines; Sergeant w/ Artificer Armour, Lightning Claw, Melta Bomb, Power Dagger; Rhino w/ Multi-Melta, Hunter-Killer Missile) = 215
Troops: Legion Tactical Support Squad (9 Marines w/ Volkite Calivers; Sergeant w/ Volkite Caliver, Artificer Armour, Lightning Claw, Melta Bomb, Power Dagger) = 260
Troops: Legion Tactical Support Squad (8 Marines w/ Plasma Guns; Sergeant w/ Plasma Gun, Artificer Armour, Lightning Claw, Melta Bomb, Power Dagger) = 330

Fast Attack: Anvillus Dreadclaw Drop Pod = 115
Fast Attack: Headhunter Kill Team (9 Headhunters w/ 1 Heavy Bolter; Prime w/ Artificer Armour, Powerfist) = 335
Fast Attack: Headhunter Kill Team (9 Headhunters w/ 1 Heavy Bolter; Prime w/ Artificer Armour, Powerfist) = 335

Heavy Support: Legion Land Raider Battle Squadron (1 Proteus w/ Explorator Augury Web, Armoured Ceramite, Multi-Melta, Hull TL-Lascannon) = 295
Heavy Support: Legion Fire Raptor Gunship (Hellstrike Missiles) = 220

Army Total = 3,500

Notes: Dynat and the Plasma Support Squad go in the Anvillus; Rapiers, Destroyers, and Volkite Support Squad are granted Infiltration from Autilon Skorr's Warlord Trait; then I'm free to pick Tank Hunters against heavy armour armies, Scout for Outflanking Rhinos, Counter-Attack for better combat defense all over (Headhunters especially....), what-have-you. Everything Infiltrates, Deep Strikes, or comes in a transport. Destroyers and Headhunters can work together to beat up things in combat. Good control over going first, great reserve manipulation for outflankers and the Raptor. Of course... I still haven't played but one game of HH, so, you know, totally new territory for me; maybe it sucks! Help! Hehe.

Also, I guess I should mention, my group is exclusively Astartes; no one is playing Mechanicus, or Auxilia, or anything else. I'm actuall the only one who even own any of that.... which is why I've been thinking about Sacrificial Offering too. But this was the list I wanted to get commentary on first....

Thanks in advance for your comments and suggestions!

You cannot have Dynat and Skorr in the same Army, they are both required to be the Warlord, additionally Skorr is a Delegatus and if you have a Delegatus you are not allowed to have a Praetor (which Dynat is).

A. I thought FW had stated that, in case of such a conflict, Skorr's rule simply took precedence?

B. Where does it say Dynat is a Praetor...? Don't see that anywhere in his rules.

I must have miss remembered the phrasing of the rule, there may not be other models with 'Master of the Legion' in a force with a Delegatus, nor can there be a Lord of War. Or it just says Praetor I dont remember.

But Dynat does have Jealous Command and Master of the Legion.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Additionally only the Primarch overrules the provision for a model that "Must be" in command.

Alright so, no you cannot have both Skorr and Dynat in this list - it is not in the rules (unless you can pull up a FW email showing us otherwise).
Taking Coils of the Hydra without stealing a unit is just as waste, either steal a unit or don't run that RoW TBH. Also yes you can use the Mutable Tactics to give all your dude infiltrate to use in a Coils list.
Goodluck getting your points worth out of those headhunters - I have tried and tried and just can't seem to ever make them perform as well as their points would indicate they should.

If Dynat has Jealous commander then there are your rules plain and simple.

Drop one or both Headhunter squads, replace with seekers and an Iron Havoc unit. Much better use of your points and the RoW.

I second dropping the Headhunters, they sadly aren't very good and basic Seeker Squads do the job better. Just use the Headhunter Upgrade sets, if you have them, as your Seekers.

The units that do need a DT or Infiltrate I suggest just giving some sort of DT, you dont want to have yourself limited to only ever using the same WL Trait with Skorr.

Speaking of Skorr and chosing his trait, chosing Divide to Conquer and with the Land Raider Proteus with an Augur Array you have in the list, combined with the Coils of the Hydra you'll be putting more of a limit on Reserves.

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:


Speaking of Skorr and chosing his trait, chosing Divide to Conquer and with the Land Raider Proteus with an Augur Array you have in the list, combined with the Coils of the Hydra you'll be putting more of a limit on Reserves.

I like skorr in smaller games - can pick the strategic trait to give 3 units infiltrate (so your vets that you take with him). Which basically means with the vet tactics and mutable tactics you have each of your veteran squads with 3xUSR instead of 1