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Let me run this idea as "test the waters to see if it works".

What if certain support units like the Venomthrope and the Tervigon were available as Dedicated Transport options to certain units?

Such as for Termagants:
* This unit may select a Tervigon, Tyrannocyte, or Venomthrope Brood as a Dedicated Transport.

I know it won't fix much (especially with certain current price points and options), but it is more of if you think it would work as an actual Option statement, or if the Dedicated Transport line requires an actual Transport. Its effectiveness would be more in what changes we would make to said units, obviously.

Are you asking if the units can actually "embark" inside those units? or just that you may take an extra unit without taking up a slot?

If the former, I only see that working for the Tervigon & Tyrannocyte. I don't see how Guants can "embark" into a Venomthrope.
That would be like a Space Marine embarking into a Terminator (oh wait, bad example, Centurians exist)

If you mean the later, I don't see any issues with that

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 Galef wrote:
Are you asking if the units can actually "embark" inside those units? or just that you may take an extra unit without taking up a slot?

If the former, I only see that working for the Tervigon & Tyrannocyte. I don't see how Guants can "embark" into a Venomthrope.
That would be like a Space Marine embarking into a Terminator (oh wait, bad example, Centurians exist)

If you mean the later, I don't see any issues with that

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The latter. Yeah, the Venomthrope isn't much of a carrier, at least not directly. Along with not taking up a Slot, it also gains the Role and detachment special rules that come with units they were purchased with.

Do you think adding Pyrovores as a kind of a "Weapon Attachment" to certain units in a similar manner would be plausible?

I wouldn't really be opposed to this, but I'm not sure it really addresses the core issues of tyranids either. Currently, tyranids don't struggle with limited slots. They struggle with Flyrants being very good and other units largely being poor-to-meh. So a venomthrope not taking up an elite slot doesn't really change anything when you weren't running out of elite slots to begin with.

Also, there's some potential for weirdness here if you can now take a venomthrope or tervigon in a formation that is normally not able to include those models.

Taking special bugs like pyrovores as attachments to normal squads in the same way that you can take a commissar in a guardsman squad is an interesting idea. In the case of a pyrovore, it would probably work out pretty well. In the case of, say, a venomthrope, you're making that venomthrope really really unpleasantly annoying to kill. And not necessarily in a good way.

I'm also torn on how fluffy this would be. On one hand, I can see gaunts catching bullets for specialized bugs to keep them in the fight. On the other hand, you potentially lose out on the macro-level feeling that tyranids often have. I always got the impression that non-synaptic specialists weren't really a thing in tyranid units because the hive mind couldn't be bothered to focus on such a minute part of the swarm. Not having a special fire bug in a swarm of little bugs kind of reflects that. I could see a fluff argument for or against this either way.

So yeah. I think your idea would be fine. I'm just not sure it's really going to have a big impact. Taking a squad of biovores or zoanthropes as DTs (so probably troops) isn't likely to dramatically improve their performance on the table. Instinctive behavior will remain annoying (in an unfun way), and transports will still be a pain to crack without twin-linked brainleeches.

Well to be fair, the elite and heavy support is incredibly crowded on Tyranids. But that is not really the issue either. Tyranids are bloated with units in general with most of those units having no clear purpose or rules that don't help support their "intended role".

Malanthropes are mostly super Venomthropes. I would rather be able to upgrade a Venomthrope to a Malanthrope. Old One Eye is a worthless HQ option. I would rather be able to upgrade a Carnifex into OOE. What exactly is the harpy supposed to do that something else in the dex doesn't do better? Why is the drool cannon anti ground while the hivecrone supposedly is built for anti air? Bring Pyrovores in broods of termagants? Yes please.

Toxicrenes are expensive distraction carnifexs. Maleceptors are... there so the toxicrene kit can make a second thing.

Wyldhunt wrote:So yeah. I think your idea would be fine. I'm just not sure it's really going to have a big impact. Taking a squad of biovores or zoanthropes as DTs (so probably troops) isn't likely to dramatically improve their performance on the table. Instinctive behavior will remain annoying (in an unfun way), and transports will still be a pain to crack without twin-linked brainleeches.

Yeah, the impact of this change will largely be dependent on what changes in the individual support units are.made. I have other ideas on them, though I think the Venemthropes is well enough as is, for the most part.

I wouldn't really support the Venom/Malanthropes as being actually in the units, but certain models could be useful in this route, such as the Pyrovores, as there really isn't a point to take them any other way.

Lance845 wrote:Well to be fair, the elite and heavy support is incredibly crowded on Tyranids. But that is not really the issue either. Tyranids are bloated with units in general with most of those units having no clear purpose or rules that don't help support their "intended role".

Malanthropes are mostly super Venomthropes. I would rather be able to upgrade a Venomthrope to a Malanthrope. Old One Eye is a worthless HQ option. I would rather be able to upgrade a Carnifex into OOE. What exactly is the harpy supposed to do that something else in the dex doesn't do better? Why is the drool cannon anti ground while the hivecrone supposedly is built for anti air? Bring Pyrovores in broods of termagants? Yes please.

Toxicrenes are expensive distraction carnifexs. Maleceptors are... there so the toxicrene kit can make a second thing.

Very true. In a way, I was trying to help put the Tervigon in to a specific role, and if it worked here, other models may be set up similarly. Some would work better as "Weapon Attachments" while others would work better as "Dedicated Support" Broods.

While there are some decent enough ideas I think what Nids really need is mostly a clean slate.

So much needs to be cut and condensed it's ridiculous.

Tyranid Primes should be able to bring a brood of warriors with them. Also they should be able to be Ravener Primes and Shrike Primes and bring a brood of whatever is appropriate with THEM.

Spore mines shouldn't have a slot to fill on the FoC. They should be units you can buy with harpys and biovores. Probably should trim out a couple of the other mines types. They just are not worthwhile units on their own and only get purchased now to pay a troop tax or dump your last couple points.

Sporecysts should be tyranid fortifications and you can buy 1-3 of them per foc slot. Also, can purchase spore units with them as "wargear".

Rippers... they need something to give them a little leg up. Something needs to produce them. Or they need to be self replicating somehow. Similar too but different from spyders making scarab swarms.

There is just so much nonsense in the Nid line up at the moment. We need less units to choose from and more unit choices with options that make sense.