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im not familiar enough with the new BT codex,  im wondering if they can fall forward from suffering a wound caused by a psychic attack. let say im within 2" of them and use gift of chaos. would the fall forward from that loss of a model ? i know in 4th edition that psychic attacks are used in the shooting phase instead of shooting and here is what i know about zeal

righteous zeal,  in the shooting phase, any infantry unit ( not jump infantry) that is not pinned or falling back must take a morale check if it suffers any casualties from enemy shooting, not just when it suffers 25 % casualties. All other units in the black templars army check morale and fall back as normal.

also when the do fall forward, can that move bring them into contact with an enemy model?

Morale tests, and whether a unit needs to make one or not is based on the amount of casulties the unit has taken by the end of the shooting phase, so whether a power counts as shooting or not, you still take tests if the unit suffers enough casualties. Also it is assumed that any casualties taken in the shooting phase is counted as shooting casulties (as there are no other clearly defined type of casulties in the shooting phase, or any other phase for that matter). Furthermore, Psychic Powers count as shooting unless otherwise specified. So if a power doesn't specify that the casulties count as something besides shooting casualties than the general rules apply.

So in the case of Black Templars, I can't possibly see an arguement that can say that any casulties taken in the shooting phase can be anything more than "shooting" casualties.

Also the Righteous Zeal move counts as a consolation move, a.k.a. the same move you would make on a massacre result. So therefore you can Righteos Zeal right into combat if you are cloese enough. Generally though you are hoping to get just within that 12" range so you get all your bonus attacks on the charge, wheresas "Zealing" into close combat denies you that Benifit.

I thought Gift was used at the beginning of the assault phase, no?

Gift is during the owners shooting phase.

no, "the sorcerer may use this psychic power in the shooting phase instead of shooting" in the description in my codex.

which is why i had assumed it would bypass RZ becasue its not a wound taken form "shooting" as the RZ description calls for.

Well, you would have to define, in the rules, what a shooting casulty is. It is not a stretch to assume that a casualty taken from shooting is a shooting casualty. Now, you may have a point with Gift of Chaos as it is intead of shooting also of interest thing to note is that the model isn't described as a casulty. The model wasn't killed if it turns into a spawn, and the only time it counts as a kill is when you calculate Victory Points, so having clarified that here is what I say:

1) If the model is replaced with a spawn there is no casulty, therefore no leadership test. Reason: The model isn't technically killed, just transformed as difined.

2)If the model is removed as a Casualtiy (because you do not have a Spawn model), than a test would be required. The power is "intead of shooting" but doesn't define what type of casulty it is. Therefore the general rules for shooting need to apply, or at least the definition of the type of casualty as the rest of the power is defined.

Wouldn?t shooting attacks cause casualties from shooting? H2h attacks cause casualties from h2h and psychic attacks cause casualties from psychic attacks.

I know in the last edition of the templars, they would zeal across the field anytime they took a wound, but the new version seems to have cleared up when and if they can Zeal. If my reading of the rules (my first post) was correct. I am sure someone with the codex can find out, but I believe it specifically states that they can zeal when the take a casualty from a shooting attacks.

While I am not too familar with Black Templars, if their Righteous Zeal works like the Repentia's Righteous Zeal, then if you move into an enemy unit, it counts as a charge.

Jeremy, you are correct that they move if they pass a Ld check from the one casualty.

Dragonpup, the righteous zeal move for templars is not the same as it is for the repentia. For BTs the movement is exactly the same as the movement gained from a massacre result.

(have the BT codex with me right now, but the chaos codex is at home).

i find it funny to see you posting this jeremy if you want to look at the books i got them, lmao. The best part which you are not seeing is it a consolation move too which means it must move any where up to the roll, but as i can gather it depends on the power it self.

i find it funny to see you posting this jeremy if you want to look at the books i got them, lmao. The best part which you are not seeing is it a consolation move too which means it must move any where up to the roll, but as i can gather it depends on the power it self.

Can anyone translate this into English?