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Three land raiders and a renegade knight. Is it competitive; perhaps lower tier competitive? Can it be roughly as good as the more standard CSM lists involving bikes, spawn, heldrakes etc.? Abaddon makes chosen troops so it's a standard CAD with the knight as an ally

Abaddon 265
7 Chosen with power sword, 3 flamers 156
Land Raider 230

7 Chosen with power axe, power fist, 2 melta guns 186
Land Raider 230

5 Terminators with MoK, chainfist (champion), 2 chainfists, power fist, heavy flamer 228
Land Raider 230

Renegade Knight 325

1850


I want an army a bit different to the more common CSM lists out there and including terminators in a land raider, so figured a mobile high AV wall would make that practical. I'm curious to hear your thoughts! Obviously the list is very rock/paper/scissors and would fall apart against opponents able to quickly take down heavy armour. That's fine, it isn't designed to be a tournament winner- just to give a decent account of itself against everything else

Abaddon is a bit like a kitted out terminator squad on his own and can go toe to toe with almost anything. The unit he attaches to brings flamers and enough attacks that he shouldn't get tarpitted but have enough shooting/CC ability that they can probably split off and deal with a separate unit if needed. The second chosen unit is probably the weak link in the army and really only justifies a land raider to keep up the theme.

The terminators have the mark of Khorne for all the extra attacks. 12 chainfist and 4 regular fist attacks on the charge means the knight isn't my only way to take down a superheavy or anything else particularly durable. The renegade knight is the cheap sword and fist configuration because that's what fits into 1850 points and it goes with the theme

In an ideal scenario the knight and transported units get stuck in and the land raiders sit back on objectives shooting. As a concept can this list work?? Thanks for reading

Land raiders are fine for what they do (ie driving forward guns blazing/assault vehicle) the reason why I would not consider them remotely competitive is that it is a lot of points only to be blown up by a random drop pod with combi-melta/melta on a roll of a 5. Also while chosen seem to be geared toward melee they are actually overcosted for what they do. Hell the only difference between them and a terminator is that they can be kitted out with different weapons and have one extra attack. Whereas with terminators you get power fist and a 2+/5++. What I would do is fill out troops choice with 2 small squads of 10 cultists, and replace remaining points with terminators as they are overall more durable. With your cultists you can capture objectives more out of the way and act as a bullet sponge when needed. Also knight should be meant to melt MEQ and light armored vehicles (double avenger assault cannons ), or a chaff clearer (double battlecannones). I would recommend chaff clearer because Abbadon/his honor guard can be easily tar pitted and 3 regular flamers won't guarantee no tar pitting . Also unfortunately no it cannot be competitive as the lists you mentioned above because bikes and spawn are more durable than just base marines and bikes have twinlinked shenanigans and mobility. And hell drakes have a str6 ap3 weapon that ignores cover and is a template so it is hard to defeat that. However replacing the chosen with termiators can really bolster the power of your army and the land raiders should protect them from sudden drops of grav. I also recommend that you drop the land raider for the terminators (That you have already) as they can just deep strike and that gives you 230 points for marks and relics, perhaps a sorcerer to make abbadon invisible/re roll hits? Overall though against lower tier armies (non biker spam orks, horde tyranids, etc) it won't lose out right but will have some trouble.

Thanks for the input. You're absolutely right about the podded meltas (or fast melta/grav delivery like bikes) being a really hard counter to the list. I have to hope opponents with good anti land raider/knight options make some bad rolls and/or I get my infantry stuck in before the vehicles get hit. Many lists I wouldn't even have that hope against

I hear you on the cultists, but I've got so few infantry models I'm reluctant to reduce the amount of actual marines even further

Chosen... yea. Not a great unit. But without lots of power weapons/fists in a unit I think they're better compared to berzerkers than terminators.

Speaking of terminators there is an option to go full terminator with this list... the terminator annihilation force is a lord (can be Abaddon) and 3+ units of terminators. Swap the chosen in my list to terminators and that's a battle forged army...




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Terminator Annihilation Force + Renegade Knight

Abaddon 265
5 Terminators with MoK, chainfist (champion), 2 chainfists, fist, heavy flamer 228
4 Terminators with 2 power fists, 2 combi-meltas 150
5 Terminators with chainfist, pair of claws, combi-flamer, heavy flamer 191
Land Raider 230
Land Raider 230
Land Raider 230

Renegade Knight 325

1849

IMHO that would be a better Idea, I have played chaos space marines a decent amount during 7th edition and chosen just have been garbage (at least for me) they are just so useless with AP3 and to get them to have AP2 weapons why not just get terminators?. And if you still want to run chosen, run them in smaller groups that gives the enemy more targets to shoot at so that your chosen are not mulched by a single knight because they are in a big group. Lascannons on raiders have anti-Armour, terminators have MEQ and light armored vehicles, and knight is a good backup plan in case any of these fail. You just need help on your objective game: you can use either cultists, or spawn. Well whatever the case with these changes that you made to your list, it can be pretty good against most casual/fluffy comers and some lower tier competitive armies, just don't expect to beat an eldar scat bike list with wraith knight , or a very optimized gladius strike force. Anyway good luck

Thanks for the comments. The list should be a lot more effective with terminators instead of chosen... it just didn't occur to me to run the terminator formation initially. I've been assembling termies since I posted the second list last night

The objective game will be tough and it's going to take practice to figure out how to play this army but I'm excited about it. I've always wanted to run a pure chaos terminator list and it's cool I can do that now without going unbound

Gladius... eldar... I'll just see how many turns I can last

You can use the Purge Detachment (IA13 siege of vraks) for the same list

Drop one terminator or some weapons for dozer blades and dirge casters for the land raiders, you don't want to have 230 points immobilized for a single one

 Plague Planet Lord wrote:
You can use the Purge Detachment (IA13 siege of vraks) for the same list

Drop one terminator or some weapons for dozer blades and dirge casters for the land raiders, you don't want to have 230 points immobilized for a single one

Just looked it up. I don't want to abandon Abaddon or the Khorne mark on my chainfist unit but that's a cool formation. I love the barrage and flamer weapons thing.

I see the benefit of dozer blades, I really do. I'm just too lazy to figure out how to model them and I'm no converter. I saw some cool conversions people have done with two blades covering the tracks but a gap left for the assault ramp. Maybe something I could consider in the future

I've never really understood how dirge casters work in practice. Everybody seem to rate them but for a land raider it seems like you'd really have to go out of your way to bring them into effect. The transported unit disembarks up to 6" away from the front hatch- probably directly forward of the vehicle towards the opponent's table edge; if the unit makes a successful charge then the dirge caster is out of range. In subsequent turns unless the unit being charged just happens to be 6" away from the LR (assuming you aren't moving away) the dirge casters would be useful, but I can't see that happening often. Maybe a rhino can justify moving purely for the purpose of negating overwatch, but a land raider?

If I'm getting immobilised land raiders I'll probably take your advice on the dozer blades though