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Hey there, I'm pretty new I'm I've been making a pure grey knights list that I want to make into my first army. Any constructive advise or ideas on my list or things you might change are greatly welcomed. As I stated before I'm new so I might or will get things wrong on the list. With the HQ being a Librarian I'm not sure or probably can't have a Brother Captain as a Grand Master.

HQ:
Librarian
Psyker(Mastery Level 3)
Storm Bolter
Nemesis Daemon Hammer
The Fury of Deimos(Replaces Storm Bolter)

Grand Master:
Brother Captain
Grand Master(Psyker Level 2)
Nemesis Daemon Hammer
Terminator Special Weapons(Psycannon)
Melta Bomb's

Elite's:
Paladin Squad
Brotherhood Banner
Added Paladins: x2
Two Nemesis Falchions x2
Nemesis Force Halberd x1
Nemesis Daemon Hammer x1
Terminator Special Weapons(Psycannon) x1
Terminator Special Weapons(Psilencer) x1
Melta Bomb's

Dreadnought
Twin Linked Autocannon
Extra Armor

Troop's:
Terminator Squad
Nemesis Force Halberd x3
Two Nemesis Falchions x1
Nemesis Daemon Hammer x1
Terminator Special Weapons(Psilencer) x1

Terminator Squad
Nemesis Force Halberd x3
Two Nemesis Falchions: x1
Terminator Special Weapons(Psilencer) x1

Terminator Squad
Nemesis Force Halberd x3
Two Nemesis Falchions x1
Terminator Special Weapons(Psilencer) x1

Heavy Support:
Land Raider
Extra Armor

Land Raider Redeemer
Multi Melta
Extra Armor

No dreadnights? They're your strongest unit

So, easiest thing first, drop the hammer and fury of deimos off of your librarian and replace them with the liber daemonica and a force stave. Having four sanctic powers is incredibly useful, and since your Grandmaster already has an AP 2 hammer, and is better in challenges than the librarian anyway, you won't need the second hammer on the librarian. Consider also the force stave for denying psychic powers: Your Librarian gets +1 to all deny the witch rolls from being a psyker, +1 from the force staves "adamantium will", and with mastery level 3 will probably also get another +1 for being a higher mastery level than your opponent. That means you will always deny on a 4+, sometimes a 3+ AND get to reroll 1's thanks to "the aegis". Combine that with the number of your psychic dice and your librarian doesn't only wreck psychic face, but can also completely shut down your opponents psychic potential.

A quick note on your terminators: Psycannons are almost always better than Psilencers, and aren't reliant on force to be effective, plus they don't suck up valuable warp charges that your librarian might need. Also give each terminator squad one hammer, so they can threaten heavy vehicles and infantry.

As for the dreadnought, drop the extra armor, if he's being shot at enough to get shaken, he's usually already dead. TBH, you might even want to drop him completely, as grey knight dreadnoughts are extremely overpriced (125 points) and weak (2 attacks base), especially in comparison to their space marine cousins (100 points and 4 attacks base). Don't get me wrong, i love dreadnoughts, and they are (imho) cutest/coolest walking little deathmachines in the game, but until they get an update, they aren't really competitive (if thats what your after, anyway). There are two builds that are halfway viable, though. You can kit him out for Anti-Air duties with two autocannons, but then I would recommend getting a second dreadnought as well, however you could just get a stormraven for the points instead. If you really want to field a melee dreadnought though, give him either a plasmacannon or lascannon for longranged AP 2, as a single autocannon is essentially a psycannon that only has 2 shots and loses "rending".

Land raiders: First off, I would recommend using two landraiders with lascannons instead of the redeemer, as grey knights don't really have problems with killing MEQ's as much as they do have popping vehicles from a distance. Also, if you're using a combined arms detachement instead of the grey knight's, use them as dedicated transports for your terminators to give them objective secured. Also drop the extra armor off of the landraiders, as using POTMS lets you ignore shaken results on one weapon anyway. Many people complain that Raiders don't deal enough damage for their cost, but thats very dependant on your local meta.

Paladins: Now, I personally dislike paladins because they are very vulnerable to S 8 or Instant Death AP 2 weapons, and the fact that in a five-man squad, each model loss is a significant decrease in destroying power. With five models you have 2 psycannons 1 hammer and 1 banner, which leaves you with 1 "ablative" model (that means no heavy weapon, no hammer or buffing wargear). If you play paladins, I would recommend getting an apothecary as well and throwing on another 2 more paladins for tanking damage for your more valuable warriors. Also, the Brotherhood Banner becomes more effective the more models are in the squad. In my experience, paladins are most effective in squad sizes between 7 (5 "valuable" paladins+2 ablative paladins) and 10 (completely maxed out, so banner, apothecary, 2 hammers and 4 heavy weapons as well as ablative wounds). I presume your Grandmaster and Librarian will be joining the paladins?

On the note of the Grandmaster, if you have the points, you could replace him with Kaldor Draigo. You lose a psycannon and meltabombs in exchange for an additional wound, Initive 5 AP 2 close combat and a 3+ invuln save. Also, more importantly, Draigo almost singlehandedly solves Paladins two main problems, mobility and vulnerability to instant death, with Gate of Infinity and Eternal Warrior. If your Librarian with 4 sanctic powers manages to get sanctuary as well, and put draigo in the front of your squad, your giving them four 2+ 2++ 5+Feel no pain eternal warrior wounds to chew through. Plus having 6 S7 (9 with hammerhand) AP 2 attacks on the charge with initiative 5 is pretty sick.

Obviously, if you want to make your list stronger, get the infamous DREADKNIGHT . Scratch that, make it two...or three?.....four?.... It is by FAR the most costeffective unit in our codex, a mountrous creature with 12" movement, 2+ 4++ save, S 10 AP 2 Instant death in melee and awesome shooting. Give him the psycannon+incinerator combo, it allows you to kill hordes and vehicles equally well. Speaking of hordes, consider using purifiers, they are pure awesome with incinerators and cleansing flame. However, they will need mobility and protection, so give them a transport. Surprisingly, Draigo sinergizes very well with them as well.

I'll also mention the traditional "grey knights need allies to do well" paragraph, but I play mine "pure grey" as well, so....

Just remember that all these suggestions are based on my own personal expierience and meta, so what works for me might not be true for you, and vice versa. Also, most of these suggestions are based upon making your list competetive, if you just want to have fun playing with the "rule of cool", then by all means, use psilencers, dreadnoughts and landraiders, its your army, nobody can tell you how to play it. Hope this helps you

BTW: sorry for the wall of text lol ;P

Please do NOT include individual point costs.

Just use total points values for units.

As for advice, Dreadknights. Dreadknights all the way. (If you don't like the model, I understand. But competitively, they can't be beat in a GK army.)

@snykyninjaMade Yeah I know, I see them in like every grey knight army

@geffthegoatMade Thank you for the useful information, I was debating yes or no on the Dreadnought but more on the no side of it. An walls of text are just fine with me, the more I can learn the better. Yes I was wanting to have at least the Grand Master with the Paladin's. So running something like this would be better?
Paladin Squad: 7 total
Brotherhood Banner
Added Paladins: x4
Nemesis Daemon Hammer: x2
Apothecary With Narthecium
Psycannon: x2
Or would it be better to change out the Psycannon's with two Incinerator's if I change my Terminator Squad's to Psycannon's over the Psilencer's?

@JNAProductionsMade Sorry about that, I'll remember that for next time and I don't dislike the model. I'm still looking over the list and trying to learn more before buying things I might not need yet or won't use, though I'll probably end up getting one or two.

Thats definently a better loadout than before; you are, of course, still vulnerable to strengh 8 weapons, but this way, you can also take more of a beating from plasma weapons or massed small arms fire.

On the subject of grey knights special weapons, i think the general consensus is: Psycannon > Incinerator > Psilencer
Psycannon has the highest strengh, AP 4, with four shots will usually have as many hits as the incinerator, plus it has rending, so it can threaten anything in the game, vehicles, hordes, MC's, heavy infantry, AV 14, and even superheavies. Its our fabulous "All-round-weapon".

Incinerators are good for horde control and flushing units out of cover, and while its a template, a player with good positioning won't usually let you get more hits than a psycannon. Its good at what its meant for, but its too specialized for "all-round" units like grey knight terminators.

The Psilencer is a neat concept for taking out MC's, however, it falls short on numerous areas. First off, when you shoot 6 shots, you hit about 4 on average. Then, as most MC's are toughness 6, so with strengh 4, only one in 6 hits wil wound, so to get a "garanteed" wound, you need to fire atleast two psilencers at one target. And THEN, since its AP -, your opponent still gets to roll his armor save against it, which is usually at least a 3+. What psilencers are actually good at is killing low-medium toughness multiwound infantry, like Tyranid warriors or Nurglings, but even then, you'll be hitting 4 shots, getting two wounds, and since warriors/nurglings have a 4+ armor/cover save or better, your chances of actually killing something effectively is still pretty low. Not to mention that you have to spend at least 2 of your warp charges on a psilencer squad each turn in order to fire effectively at all.
However, the effectiveness of psilencers also depends on your local meta. In mine, people don' really play many low toughness multiwound models apart from their single mandatory Hq, and have either really strong MC's and walkers or masses of light infantry, against which the incinerator and psycannon do way better, so psilencers don't really work for me.

Now, when choosing between psycannons and incinerators, the general rule of thumb is: Terminators/paladins get psycannons, Power armored Knights get incinerators. This is because the salvo special rule on the psycannon limits both the movement and assault of power armor, while incinerators on terminators are usually a waste, as terminators are not meant for horde killing, and the psycannon is more effective at taking out their targets (MC's, Vehicles, Elite Infantry, etc...). Also, PA grey knights are better for horde killing because they can mop up a squad if they failed their leadership test and run away from combat, while terminators just stand around and watch them run.

Tl;dr take psycannons wherever possible, if you want incinerators for Anti-horde, take either interceptors (mobility) or purifiers (raw killing power).

Just wanted to make make a quick note since you are getting good advice:

Psilencers are a lot better than most give them credit for, but they need to be massed if you want to use them. As stated, enemies get full saves against them so you need to force rolls through volume of dice.

To that end, Purgation squads and Dreadknights are better bearers of them. A DK's Psilencers fires 12 times and Purgation squads can take 4 and still move and shoot.

@geffthegoatMade Thank you for all this information, Didn't know about a lot of this. All I have really to go off of is what I see in videos and the Grey Knight codex, haven't got the rule book yet and I still need to read the codex in more detail. With all the information I'm looking at dropping one of the Land Raider's for a Dreadknight to deep strike and with the extra points I can add in a Purifier Squad as well as changing out the Psilencer's to Psycannon's so the list looks more like this now.
HQ:
Librarian
Psyker(Mastery Level 3)
Storm Bolter
Nemesis Warding Stave
Domina Liber Daemonica
170 points

Grand Master:
Brother Captain
Grand Master(Psyker Level 2)
Nemesis Daemon Hammer
Terminator Special Weapons(Psycannon)
215 points

Elite's:
Paladin Squad
Brotherhood Banner
Added Paladins x3
Nemesis Daemon Hammer x2
Apothecary With Narthecium
Terminator Special Weapons(Psycannon) x2
445 points

Purifier Squad
Nemesis Daemon Hammer
Special Weapons Incinerator x2
135 points

Troop's:
Terminator Squad
Nemesis Force Halberd x3
Two Nemesis Falchions x1
Nemesis Daemon Hammer x1
Terminator Special Weapons(Psycannon)x1
205 points

Terminator Squad
Nemesis Force Halberd x3
Two Nemesis Falchions x1
Nemesis Daemon Hammer x1
Terminator Special Weapons(Psycannon)x1
205 points

Terminator Squad
Nemesis Force Halberd x3
Two Nemesis Falchions x1
Nemesis Daemon Hammer x1
Terminator Special Weapons(Psycannon)x1
205 points

Heavy Support:
Land Raider
250 points

Nemesis Dreadkinght
Nemesis Greatsword
Heavy Incinerator
160 points

Well, in a competitive setting you need two or three DKs.
One HQ, a Libby, should be sufficient.
I'd go for GKs in Rhinos since you need numbers.

@AudustumMade Yeah I see most Dreadknights using them but I don't normally see anyone play Purgation, Interceptor or Purifier Squad's so I wasn't to sure on how great game play is with them.

You probably want to edit the OP to take away the individual points costs. I've heard that doing that has a chance to get sites shut down by GW for giving away points costs-don't know how accurate that is, but I like this site.

As for your new list!

Librarian is an excellent choice.
Grandmaster is well-equipped too.
Might be a bit pricey on the Paladins, but still, a good Deathstar doesn't go amiss.
Maybe give the Purifiers a Rhino?
For Terminators, I prefer 4 Halberds, 1 Hammer. But that's just me.
I would drop the Land Raider entirely, upgrade the Dreadkinght with a Psycannon and Teleporter Pack, and add a Rhino, among other things.

@wuestenfux I didn't think about adding Rino's since I don't see them played really at all besides in Chaos army's

@JNAProductions Fixed the OP and new one, Sorry about that. I already have a Land Raider on its way so I'll be using that for a bit though I probably will end up buy a Rino sometime later on. I also like the Halberds over the Falchions so I'll more then likely end up taking them out for Halberds. As of right now for models I have currently I bought a Paladin Squad box and made my Grand Master, a Paladin banner, a Apothecary, and two Terminator's with Halberds. I have a Land Raider coming in as I earlier another Paladin Squad box coming in and a box of Terminators. Maybe dropping a Paladin(down to a 5 model troop) I could add a Rino and upgrade the Dreadknight to have a Psycannon over a Incinerator

Regarding Purifiers, their power is in psychic. They always know Cleansing Flame which is great for giving hordes a beatdown. The problem is just running on foot gets them nowhere.

Dome people use Rhinos, I prefer spells. A Librarian with Gate of a infinity or taking Draigo, who always knows it, let's you telephoto around the field dropping nova bombs.

@Audustum Yeah I could see why they would need something to get them up near the enemy army. So I've reconfigured my list which will leave me one point short of two thousand.

So new modified list that I think should workout alright now.

HQ:
Librarian
Psyker(Mastery Level 3)
Storm Bolter
Nemesis Warding Stave
Melta Bombs
Domina Liber Daemonica
Total: 175 Points

Grand Master:
Brother Captain
Grand Master(Psyker Level 2)
Nemesis Daemon Hammer
Terminator Special Weapons(Psycannon)
Total: 215 Points

Elite's:
Paladin Squad
Brotherhood Banner
Added Paladins x2
Nemesis Daemon Hammer x2
Apothecary With Narthecium
Terminator Special Weapons(Psycannon) x2
Total: 390 Points

Purifier Squad
Nemesis Daemon Hammer
Special Weapons Incinerator x2
Melta Bombs
Total: 150 Points

Troop's:
Terminator Squad
Nemesis Force Halberd x4
Nemesis Daemon Hammer x1
Terminator Special Weapons(Psycannon) x1
Total: 203 Points

Terminator Squad
Nemesis Force Halberd x4
Nemesis Daemon Hammer x1
Terminator Special Weapons(Psycannon) x1
Total: 203 Points

Terminator Squad
Nemesis Force Halberd x4
Nemesis Daemon Hammer x1
Terminator Special Weapons(Psycannon) x1
Total: 203 Points

Fast Attack:
Rino
Total: 35 points

Heavy Support:
Land Raider
Total: 250 Points

Nemesis Dreadkinght
Nemesis Greatsword
Heavy Psycannon
Total: 175 Points

Halberds are usually only much use for filling points at the end of a list in my opinion, S5 isn't much better than S4, and S7 isn't much better than S6. I'd drop those points you sent there and the hammer on your Purifiers. Also, Purifiers are amazing death machines, you should have more of them. If you drop a unit of terminators you can get a second squad of them in a rhino.

@danny1995 Hmm if I did that, just dropping a Terminator Squad and add another Purifier Squad with all the same loadout and. if I drop the hammers on the Purifiers that would leave me 64 unused points. Which then I could add a Personal Teleporter to the Dreadknight and still be left with 34 points to use so I might as well add the two hammers to both Purifiers squads and that would still leave me with 14 points which I could throw Melta Bombs onto two more models with two Halberds or a Falchions on something.

Yes, do that. Teleporter on the Dread Knight will be your best friend.

Hmm before I change my list a bit, what a model has in its wargear. Is that what it comes with stock for the points it says in the top right or is that extra? I know dumb question right lol.

Under warhead is what it gets base. So yes every single grey knight has a Nemesis Force sword that does horrible things to daemon princes if you have force up.

Well it was more for information for the Land Raider and Rino since the Land Raider has all this twin linked weapons and a rino has a storm bolter I wanted to make sure it wasn't extra points. So that being the case I think I came up with what my list will be, being 4 points short of 2000.

HQ:
Librarian
Psyker(Mastery Level 3)
Storm Bolter
Nemesis Warding Stave
Melta Bombs
Domina Liber Daemonica
Total: 175 Points

Grand Master:
Brother Captain
Grand Master(Psyker Level 2)
Nemesis Daemon Hammer
Terminator Special Weapons(Psycannon)
Melta Bombs
Total: 220 Points

Elite's:
Paladin Squad
Brotherhood Banner
Added Paladins x2
Nemesis Daemon Hammer x2
Apothecary With Narthecium
Terminator Special Weapons(Psycannon) x2
Total: 390 Points

Purifier Squad
Nemesis Daemon Hammer
Special Weapons Incinerator x2
Knight of The Flame
Melta Bombs
Total: 150 Points

Purifier Squad
Nemesis Daemon Hammer
Special Weapons Incinerator x2
Total: 145 Points

Troop's:
Terminator Squad
Nemesis Force Halberd x4
Nemesis Daemon Hammer x1
Terminator Special Weapons(Psycannon) x1
Total: 203 Points

Terminator Squad
Nemesis Force Halberd x4
Nemesis Daemon Hammer x1
Terminator Special Weapons(Psycannon) x1
Total: 203 Points

Fast Attack:
Rino
Extra Armor
Total: 45 Points


Heavy Support:
Land Raider
Extra Armor
Total: 260 Points

Nemesis Dreadkinght
Nemesis Greatsword
Heavy Psycannon
Personal Telepoter
Total: 205 Points

Okay, so just a few minor adjustments. You should really be runnung the paladins, grand master, and libby together in one big ball if murder, because of this you can only plant one melta bomb per combat, so having one on each of them is a huge waste. Dont put one on the GM, he is S8 with easy access to S10, swinging with 5 of those is better than one melta bomb hit. That saves you 5 points already, yayyyyyy! Next, extra armour is meh at best, so drop it, 20 points saved! 25 total! Purifiers should be charging at what their shooting can kill really well, light infantry, so the melta bomb there is also really lack luster. Hammer is good, jist put it on the lnight of the flame so he can have a dance in a challenge if necessary (people will park tough characters inside big blobs) sitting you at 34 points, drop the libby's storm bolter, its jist not worth it. It is in your best interest to get that other purifier squad a ride, guess who has 39 points to spend on a rhino? YOU!

Rino's can hold ten models so couldn't I just put both Purifier Squads in the one Rino? An yes I was already going to group my HQ, GM with my Paladins Squad. Also the melta bomb on the Purifier Squad is the Knight of The Flame having it not the rest of the troop. So taking everything else off that you say would leave me with 34 points unless I take the Melta Bombs of Knight of The Flame.

You can't put two different squads in the same vehicle (except by some shenanigans with combat squads, which your army isn't organized to do) and even if you could you want to have redundancy in your armies.

Ah ok so then I'd drop Knight of The Flame for a normal Purifier which would free up that bomb spot and do two Rino's and no extra armor and the bomb's and bolter. So this is the army list I'm building its 1996 points all together.

HQ:
Librarian
Domina Liber Daemonica
Frag, Krak and Psyk-out grenades
Nemesis Warding Stave
Psychic Hood
Psyker(Mastery Level 3)
Terminator Armour
Total: 160 Points


Grand Master:
Brother Captain
Frag, Krak and Psyk-out grenades
Iron Halo
Nemesis Daemon Hammer
Terminator Special Weapons(Psycannon)
Grand Master(Psyker Level 2)
Terminator Armour
Total: 215 Points


Elite's:
Dreadnought
Psychic Pilot(Mastery level 1)
Searchlight
Smoke launchers
Twin-linked autocannon
Twin-linked autocannon
Total: 145 Points

Paladin Squad
Apothecary
Brotherhood of Psykers(Mastery level 1)
x2 Paladin(Sword)
x2 Paladin Nemesis Daemon Hammer
Paladin Brotherhood Banner
Paladin Special Weapons(Psycannon)
Total: 470 Points

Purifier Squad
Brotherhood of Psykers(Mastery level 2)
Frag, Krak and Psyk-out grenades
Knight of the Flame(Sword)
Purifier Nemesis Daemon Hammer
x2 Purifier Special Weapons Incinerator
Purifier(Sword)
Rhino
Searchlight
Smoke launchers
Total: 180 Points

Purifier Squad
Brotherhood of Psykers(Mastery level 2)
Frag, Krak and Psyk-out grenades
Knight of the Flame(Sword)
Purifier Nemesis Daemon Hammer
x2 Purifier Special Weapons Incinerator
Purifier(Sword)
Rhino
Searchlight
Smoke launchers
Total: 180 Points


Troop's:
Terminator Squad
Brotherhood of Psykers(Mastery level 1)
Frag, Krak and Psyk-out grenades
x3 Terminator Nemesis Force Halberd
Terminator Nemesis Force Halberd, Special Weapons(Psycannon)
Terminator Armour
Terminator Justicar Nemesis Daemon Hammer
Total: 203 Points

Terminator Squad
Brotherhood of Psykers(Mastery level 1)
Frag, Krak and Psyk-out grenades
x3 Terminator Nemesis Force Halberd
Terminator Nemesis Force Halberd, Special Weapons(Psycannon)
Terminator Armour
Terminator Justicar Nemesis Daemon Hammer
Total: 203 Points


Heavy Support:
Land Raider Redeemer
x2 Flamestorm cannon
Frag assault launchers
Searchlight
Smoke launchers
Twin-linked assault cannon
Total: 240 Points