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Hi folks. I have been staring at the AoS site for quite a while and I am none the wiser. Maybe that is because I have no clue about some of the deeper fluff and playstyle. My knowledge is limited to how the original stuff looks on the GW website. So, what I am going to do is just describe to you what I want my army to look like/be and maybe you will have an idea of what I would want to start

• SW are my favourite 40k faction
• I like any (or all) of the following: different deployment options, fast movement, spells or effects that allow me to move
• I prefer an 'in your face' army a whole lot more than sneaky subterfuge. Honest and glorious bloodshed
• Model diversity! (I can not stress how important that is) - conversions to make it more diverse are an option though
• A whole lot of this: http://i.imgur.com/k3FL92J.jpg and this: http://i.imgur.com/v8hfecK.jpg. Also this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i-WuwWcBWHw
• I think this looks cool: http://i.imgur.com/44TNLjP.jpg
• BLOOD AND ICE!!
• I generally prefer playing the good guys (or rather, I dislike playing outright evil factions), but as long as there is leeway in th fluff and room to shape my own story, I am fine with it.

I know this is a bit random, but this is basically what I want the army to feel like. The feeling is far more important than competitiveness

Cheers and thanks for reading

Well, from everything I know, the beastclaw raiders are what you want. They're not quite as viking as you seem to want and definitely don't have rooms full of beautiful people but they DO have monsters (no dragons though...)

- they move fast
- 100% in your face
- model diversity is a bit oof
- they like to party and they probably have a lot of treasure, but no pretty lasses or lads about, as mentioned above.
- they are 100% BLOOD AND ICE!!!
- not overtly evil

Stormcast seem to fit the bill, with deploying in the heavens and then coming down in bolts of Thunder to smack righteous fury into chaos, along with banners teleporting your units and the Prime charging up until you choose to bring him on.

The only criteria they may struggle with is model diversity, but they do have a massive dragon.

With the way that factions have been split up, model diversity might be a problem overall? unless you do some sort of combination, of course.

I think from what i've read that some of the destruction factions are naturally enough in your face and have a lot of mobility. and they aren't outright evil. all the boar riders and the above mentioned beastclaw guys...

Non chaos humans still seem pretty neglected to me though! so maybe once they get there we might have some fun human order barbarians? (ok that sounds odd). But it could happen!

Amazing. Thanks for the feedback

Now then. Let's take a stab at it. Destruction forces are interesting and Beastclaws are indeed very close in terms of looks. However, pretty much all Destruction forces lack one major component, which is humanity. Not the fact that they are not human, but the fact that they feel more like a force of nature that does its thing as opposed to a band for warriors who fight for ambition, honour, glory and celebrate afterwards.

Stormcasts are damn interesting. If there any Chambers/Hosts that are more feral, wear pelts and trophies and maybe fight topless, it could be a hit. I especially like the Dracoths. Now, I have heard from a friend that Dracoths are good, but most of the interesting and competitive lists come from the Battalions, which include mainly infantry. If this is true, it would be very sad, because I would hate having 40 of the same dude with slightly different weapons on the board :/

Lastly, I am surprised no one mentioned Chaos. As I understand it, they are pretty much 100% evil now. Is that right? Because I remember some fluff from the Hordes of Chaos (was it 6th edition?), where the mortals were never depicted as all that evil, but rather live their lives and Chaos is just another part of tis reality. They did trades with the Empire and did not fight because of malice, but because it was their way of life. I really liked that fluff. Is there any chance of a more neutral and sober approach to Chaos Warriors in AoS? Or are they a hybrid of Satan, Hitler and Skeletor now?

Also, how would a mixed Chaos list (mostly Khorne though, with some Skaven maybe) stack up against Stormcasts. Are they interesting?

If you want model diversity then instead of just picking a single faction you can make an army comprised of different units from one of the major factions (called "Grand Alliances" in AoS) which is either Order (the "good" guys like Stormcast, humans, elves etc), Chaos, Destruction (orgres and greenskins) or Death.

 Trade_Prince wrote:

Lastly, I am surprised no one mentioned Chaos. As I understand it, they are pretty much 100% evil now. Is that right? Because I remember some fluff from the Hordes of Chaos (was it 6th edition?), where the mortals were never depicted as all that evil, but rather live their lives and Chaos is just another part of tis reality. They did trades with the Empire and did not fight because of malice, but because it was their way of life. I really liked that fluff. Is there any chance of a more neutral and sober approach to Chaos Warriors in AoS? Or are they a hybrid of Satan, Hitler and Skeletor now?

Also, how would a mixed Chaos list (mostly Khorne though, with some Skaven maybe) stack up against Stormcasts. Are they interesting?

You can fluff it out however you want basically. My impression of the fluff I've read so far is that Chaos followers aren't really evil, just selfish, and see following Chaos as a path of power or as the only alternative to death and slavery.

In response to mixed lists, I play mono-Khorne but mixed Chaos can do well from what I've read. Skaven in particular seem to me to compensate well for the main deficiency of many chaos lists which is a lack of reliable and powerful shooting.

 Trade_Prince wrote:
Amazing. Thanks for the feedback
Stormcasts are damn interesting. If there any Chambers/Hosts that are more feral, wear pelts and trophies and maybe fight topless, it could be a hit. I especially like the Dracoths. Now, I have heard from a friend that Dracoths are good, but most of the interesting and competitive lists come from the Battalions, which include mainly infantry. If this is true, it would be very sad, because I would hate having 40 of the same dude with slightly different weapons on the board :/

There is a Chamber exactly like that - but only in the fiction (which I personally don't read) but Gav Thrope's Warbeast book covers the feral Stormcast (so if you are a fan of converting it could be fun).

The Stormcast meta is all over the place. Originally it was the teleport banner dropping loads of retributors down that lists were built on, then ca,e Skybourne Slayers, then Warrior Brotherhood, but then Ben Johnson won Blood and Glory with a Prosectutor w/hammer list out of nowhere - so pretty much they have loads of strong builds and no one has really settled on which is the strongest. And of course this is if you are looking to win major tournaments in your country. If you are happy just to compete then the options get even broader than they already are. I have played against Dracoths and they are super strong (and much scarier than the Stardrake in my opinion). So you should be able to have lots of fun with them.

:-)

To be fair, I would want to avoid Skyborne Slayers and Warrior Brotherhood, because they are so monotone. Maybe something like this:
6 Fulmenators, 2x5 Judicators (bows), 5 Liberators, 1 Vexillor, 1 Castellan, 1 Prime, 1 Relictor and 120pts for... maybe Dogs against Deep Strike lists? Maybe a variation without the Prime, but with more line troops and different heroes or Vanguard Wing/Warden of the Realm Gate? Not sure, but it looks more fun than pure foot SCE. The banner seems cool to pick up the Fulmenators from somewhere after they cleared a flank and get them somewhere else in the middle of the game.

Though KBB looks tempting, because they already have the right style and plenty of Cav (I like cav) from the Chaos faction. Throw in stuff like Warp Lightning Cannons, Bloodthirsters or whatever else you have to supplement for their lack of ranged firepower and I suppose it might work. They definitely have more fun lists I would like to play than SCE, although SCE seem to be a closer hit in terms of fluff and flexibility on the board.

Trade_Prince wrote:Amazing. Thanks for the feedback

Now then. Let's take a stab at it. Destruction forces are interesting and Beastclaws are indeed very close in terms of looks. However, pretty much all Destruction forces lack one major component, which is humanity. Not the fact that they are not human, but the fact that they feel more like a force of nature that does its thing as opposed to a band for warriors who fight for ambition, honour, glory and celebrate afterwards.

Stormcasts are damn interesting. If there any Chambers/Hosts that are more feral, wear pelts and trophies and maybe fight topless, it could be a hit. I especially like the Dracoths. Now, I have heard from a friend that Dracoths are good, but most of the interesting and competitive lists come from the Battalions, which include mainly infantry. If this is true, it would be very sad, because I would hate having 40 of the same dude with slightly different weapons on the board :/

Lastly, I am surprised no one mentioned Chaos. As I understand it, they are pretty much 100% evil now. Is that right? Because I remember some fluff from the Hordes of Chaos (was it 6th edition?), where the mortals were never depicted as all that evil, but rather live their lives and Chaos is just another part of tis reality. They did trades with the Empire and did not fight because of malice, but because it was their way of life. I really liked that fluff. Is there any chance of a more neutral and sober approach to Chaos Warriors in AoS? Or are they a hybrid of Satan, Hitler and Skeletor now?

Also, how would a mixed Chaos list (mostly Khorne though, with some Skaven maybe) stack up against Stormcasts. Are they interesting?

That is what I thought at first, no humanity, but I am putting that in my forces. After watching a bit of Warcraft, you can see the Orcs there have a lot of humanity. It's just in battle when it seems they "act like a force of nature". That said, any human army can be like that too, no humanity in there, just killing machines. If anything the Stormcast Eternals have no humanity at all because they are all faceless masks that hide what ever humanity is there.

Since you have an inkling for Destruction, I strongly let you think it over again. Who is to say the Orrucks or the Ogers don't love and have family at home and go out for honour.

I do love Warcraft Orks, more so than most Warcraft Humans. Having said that, they are much much different than Warhammer Orks. Warhammer Orks are football hooligans as opposed to noble savages. They fight for the sake of it, not because of larger than life issues and idiologies.

As for the Destruction part. Do not get me wrong, but the idiologies of an army plays a far larger role to me than models or play style. If I can identify with the characters or the army triggers certain emotions within me, it is almost an instant sell. That is the reason why I always gravitate towards 'good' (my point of view) factions.

But in AoS, there is a conflict, because I am starking to like those viking-like Chaos factions (StD, KBB and Monsters), but they are just plain evil. Same can be said about destruction though both the interest and evil are less than with Chaos.

 Trade_Prince wrote:
I do love Warcraft Orks

*Orcs

 Trade_Prince wrote:
Stormcasts are damn interesting. If there any Chambers/Hosts that are more feral, wear pelts and trophies and maybe fight topless

Impossible, Stormcast are kinda like Necrons/Valhallan Warriors; they are bounded to a metal carapace, since they are the best warriors humankin ever had reforged in Sigmarite. There are models with faces tho, that's confusing, but they *can't* be topless.

Yet, go for Astral Templars. They do bear pelts and use runes, they are on the Realm of the Beasts, they are radicals in name of Sigmar, etc. You need to convert the pelts tho, and they use a wine colour scheme.

 Trade_Prince wrote:
But in AoS, there is a conflict, because I am starking to like those viking-like Chaos factions (StD, KBB and Monsters), but they are just plain evil. Same can be said about destruction though both the interest and evil are less than with Chaos.

But Chaos has always been just plain evil; everyone civilised that was not Chaos tinted saw them just as plain bad guys.

They do seek for glory an domination in AoSm they look for gain the favour of their goda, they are the same as always.

My Chaos minis are not evil. Are Germans and Japanese any more evil in WW2 than say Americans or UK? Or who were the good guys and who were the bad guys when France was fighting England? Is it really the people who are evil or just the people leading the government which therefore doesn't represent who the people actually are.

So of course "the other side" will view the people or in AoS case race, as wild savage football hooligans. Funny enough I don't see that at all. I see a race that can have a fun great time and make the best when the worst is happening.


The way I see it, it's the same like 40K. Just like how 40K is in the view of Imperium of Man, AoS is in the view of Sigmar.

I strongly disagree that Chaos are evil or Destructions are evil or bad and that Order are the good guys. There is just as much bad or evil in Order that there would be in Chaos or Destruction. It's just easier for the Human player to classify the armies into Alliances and doesn't mean one faction is more evil or good over another.

That said you have to go with what your "heart" tells you. I would just hate for you to think that Chaos is evil when I see it as propaganda just like how countries in WW2 were depicted as evil to their own countries.

Maybe the leaders are "evil" but the people are not.

I have read a bit into the Astral Templars and from what I could gather, there were some fighting bare-chested. Take that for what it's worth.

As for the evilness of Chaos, it is a pet peeve of mine. I am under the impression that the evilness of Chaos is being constantly enforced because they need an antagonist of the setting. However, there was one instance where it was almost right and that was the 6ed Hordes of Chaos book. When reading the fluff about the mortals it became apparent that they were, in fact, just normal northmen that lived int he shadow of Chaos. It was part of their life, but they considered Chaos to be beyond their comprehension. Mutations and things like that were regarded as normal. There was this story, 'The Were of Fjingard(sp?)" where a Marienburgian merchant was talking to his Norscan friend about Chaos spawns and how the women were still feeding it until it can earn its death and thus a place with the Gods. It was not regarded as evil and the bonds of family were so strong, that the Spawn would not attack its own.

I know, there are those cracks that do every single thing the Gods say, but there are also those that live their life and let these things happen. I would love a game where this was the setting and Chaos was not antagonized.
In fact, if you take away the antagonization, the Warp and Chaos is not a personal force, but a mirror of human emotions. It could be anything from anger to justice. The Hordes of Chaos book even said that it is a mirror of the most noble to the base, of strength and frailty and of morality and vice. THAT is stuff that I like. What I dislike is this black and white approach that AoS took. I get that they are aiming for a more Greek mythology approach where black and white are apparent, but it does not make me happy. Neither does Chaos in 40k. The only times when it did was the Hordes of Chaos book.

Stormcast are flesh and blood and they are not bonded with their armor they can take it off. Also some astral Templars fight bare chested.

Fyreslayers?

Not bad guys, very in your face, but not terribly speedy. More character and flawed yet noble/religious motivation than Stormcast. Model variety is only slightly better though.

TBH almost everything moves up fairly well in AoS.

As a bonus, they are a new, for AoS, faction; so the have all the synergy design and future that provides.

 Trade_Prince wrote:
I have read a bit into the Astral Templars and from what I could gather, there were some fighting bare-chested. Take that for what it's worth.

As for the evilness of Chaos, it is a pet peeve of mine. I am under the impression that the evilness of Chaos is being constantly enforced because they need an antagonist of the setting. However, there was one instance where it was almost right and that was the 6ed Hordes of Chaos book. When reading the fluff about the mortals it became apparent that they were, in fact, just normal northmen that lived int he shadow of Chaos. It was part of their life, but they considered Chaos to be beyond their comprehension. Mutations and things like that were regarded as normal. There was this story, 'The Were of Fjingard(sp?)" where a Marienburgian merchant was talking to his Norscan friend about Chaos spawns and how the women were still feeding it until it can earn its death and thus a place with the Gods. It was not regarded as evil and the bonds of family were so strong, that the Spawn would not attack its own.

I know, there are those cracks that do every single thing the Gods say, but there are also those that live their life and let these things happen. I would love a game where this was the setting and Chaos was not antagonized.
In fact, if you take away the antagonization, the Warp and Chaos is not a personal force, but a mirror of human emotions. It could be anything from anger to justice. The Hordes of Chaos book even said that it is a mirror of the most noble to the base, of strength and frailty and of morality and vice. THAT is stuff that I like. What I dislike is this black and white approach that AoS took. I get that they are aiming for a more Greek mythology approach where black and white are apparent, but it does not make me happy. Neither does Chaos in 40k. The only times when it did was the Hordes of Chaos book.

Very well said. That is how I view my small band of tribes right now.

I got an interesting idea about a Warband. While playing the new Doom and listening to Ensiferum - Teacherous Gods, I got an idea based on this passage:

They brought us misfortune, but their honor is about to be crushed
My blood flows cold as streams of the North
We'll never let them take our souls
The calling of the howling wind is raging in the North
Creations of ice, rising mighty into the skies
And Treacherous Gods shall fall

However, it is based on the idea of Chaos from way back. Say a clan or several got screwed over and vowed to destroy them. Maybe a seer or something saw the gods not as deities but as a product of the Warp. Maybe he saw lesser gods being created. And if it can be created, it can be destroyed. It takes the concept that the Warp mirrors all, virtue and vice, strength an weakness. As such the influence a particular entity of the Warp can only influence you if you let it overpower you. So you have a tribe that is out for blood. It is their personal story that it does not involve Order or anything. Call the chieftain Doom Slayer In fact, I find that such a story would work best when regarding Norsca in isolation where Chaos is not regarded with fear or superstition, but it simply is.

I feel like this could result in a pretty good story to follow. Will they succeed or fall to their own hubris. It could also give an opportunity to look at Chaos not as an antagonist, but look at whole picture (like Khorne being the representation of honour, duty, athletism and so forth). Call it a metaphor for challenging ones beliefs and, seeing as Chaos is nothing but a mirror of emotions and though, to challenge ones darker side. Ultimately, a story self discovery and what it means to be human at all... yeah, I like philosophy in my table top. Dont judge me

Well, either that, or just make it simple and play shirtless Astral Templars and be done with it

That sounds great Trade Prince. If you love the minis and the rules for those minis, I say go for it.

You gave me an idea that I think I need to start writing down since I a very forgetful. What I intend to start my army/fluff and then play a few games and see how it changes as I grow the army. Do they ever change how they started? Has their views changed, or stayed the same?

You have a great idea there Trade Prince, I say go with it. Don't forget if you ever want to do something else you can have more than one army when you have such great ideas. Go for it.

Davor wrote:
That sounds great Trade Prince. If you love the minis and the rules for those minis, I say go for it.

You gave me an idea that I think I need to start writing down since I a very forgetful. What I intend to start my army/fluff and then play a few games and see how it changes as I grow the army. Do they ever change how they started? Has their views changed, or stayed the same?

You have a great idea there Trade Prince, I say go with it. Don't forget if you ever want to do something else you can have more than one army when you have such great ideas. Go for it.

Morality and fluff of the army is very essential to me, because I can funnel my own views and values into the project. It allows me to evaluate and maybe challenge them. As such, I have no fun playing just any army I like the look off, but an army with a fitting concept and some philosophy behind it. It makes the hobby all the sweeter But that is reason I rarely look towards armies that act against my own views on morality and virtue. Having said that, the concept above appears to be going into the Chaotic Good direction, which is very interesting. A warband that lives with Chaos and all their struggles seems more appealing than perfect Stormcasts because it is more relateable. After all, is it better to be born good or overcome your evil through great effort? And yet, I can not shake the stigma of Chaos as much as I would like :/

Damn, this is getting deep

My army Trade Prince will have a few Stormcast Eternals in them. These are the Warriors who were kidnapped from Sigmar the Coward, Sigmar the No god. They have regained their memories and remember where they came from and have rebelled against Sigmar.

Some were about to save their families or tribes only to be plucked away and their family or tribes perished because Sigmar wanted them. Not all are human. Some are human, some are Orgers and others Orrucks. They stay in their armour because they can't regain their lost bodies because Sigmar transformed them, but they have some solace being with their Kinsman.

Some want to hurt Sigmar so much but if they can't do it physically at the moment, they will hurt them emotionally and while they Stormcast will hate it, they will demonify themselves to make themselves look like deamons to hurt Sigmar emotionally since he thinks Stormcasts are perfection in his image. So they descry themselves to give Sigmar this pain. Think of a Stormcast with Tyranid Gargoyle wings as an example how it will look.

While they human tribes might look like they are Chaos they are just people living in a rough time making the best they can do to survive in the times they live in. They are not evil, will help others in need.

They just look Chaotic in the times they are living in.