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Hi, I’ve never played AoS before. A long time ago I bought some sprues of orcs from a WHFB starter set and a couple boxes of goblins with the intention of building a WHFB Orcs & Goblins army.

They’ve been sitting in my closet ever since, with a few other fantasy models and bits I picked up. Now with the AoS rules being free/inexpensive I figure I can put together an Orruks & Grots army without spending very much money.

Here’s what I’ve got to work with:
33 Orc boys with pairs of choppas
32 Arrer Boys
2 command groups (boss boy, drummer, standard bearer)
12 boys missing one or both arms
40 Goblins (still have all the sprues, so I have all the bits for them)
21 Night Goblins w/ stabbas, shields, nets and command bits
1 Goblin Shaman
Miscellaneous fantasy orc & goblin bits
Loads of 40k ork stuff

Here’s a complication: the 33 boys with pairs of choppas and the 32 arrer boys are one-piece models that don’t have replaceable arms, and most are in poses that would make converting them a chore.

I’m interested in doing a horde army with loads of troops and relatively few expensive units. I was looking at the rules for the Greenskinz Big Mob and for Grand Alliance Destruction. With Destruction giving units near the general extra movement in the Hero phase, and ‘Ere We Go! Giving units in the Big Mob the ability to run and shoot/charge, it seems like a footslogging horde would still be somewhat mobile as long as it stayed close to the general. Combine that with the Waaagh! benefit for staying close to the general, and the benefits that orc boys get for being in big mobs, and I was thinking a good strategy would be to take a few big mobs and run the across the table in a big wrecking ball around my general.

A potential problem I can see is that by having big mobs of boys with choppas they might not have enough melee range for many of them to attack. Because of the models I have it would be pretty easy to have a couple big mobs of boys with two choppas or one mob with two choppas and another with choppa & shield, but giving them spears would involve way to much cutting. Would a mob of 30 boys with choppas be able to get enough models into the fight, or would they mostly be wasted sitting in the back ranks?

Based on a conversation with another person near to me, it sounds like they normally play 1200 point games but that 2000 points might become more common in the future and the tournaments are usually 2000 points. I might end up playing mostly in tournaments, not because I’m particularly competitive but because they are on the weekends while the normal Warhammer day is on a work night and it’s about a two hour drive for me each way. I’m not too worried about winning, I mostly just want to have fun, but getting absolutely stomped every time ends up getting old.

Here’s the 2000 point list I was thinking of:


I would have to purchase the Chariot, Snotlings and Spear Chukkas. The Chariot I chose because it fulfills the Greenskinz Big Mob requirements and is cheap both in terms of points and money. The Snotlings and Spear Chukkas I chose primarily because I think they’re cool. I would have to use some of my more fantasy looking 40k Orks to fill out the units of boys and for the leaders (I have some in mind that I think would work well).

So this got more rambling than I intended. The main thing I was looking at was not spending a lot of money and primarily using what I have. Since most of my Orcs are molded as a single piece it would be easier to change my tactics than to change my models.

I can change certain things around. It would be pretty easy to have a 40 boy mob with pairs of choppas and either a 20 boy mob with shield and choppa or two 10 boy mobs with shield and choppa, but it would be hard to have a 40 boy mob w/ shield and choppa just because the way most of the models are posed. The Arrer Boyz are pretty easy to change around in terms of unit size, since they have no unit upgrades available. I can change the weapons of the Goblins easily, but the Night Goblins might be tougher since I don't have their extra bits. (I chose spears for the Goblins partly because I have so many Arrer Boyz).

If the whole idea of 30 boy mobs with choppas is bad because of their limited range maybe I could scrap the whole idea and spam loads of 10 boy mobs?

I'll stop typing now before I write a novel.

I play Bonesplitterz and not regular Orruks. But the thing I've learned is that I prefer units of 10, unless they have spears or bows. Since Orruks are on 32mm bases they get in their own way a lot.

Cool, so maybe split the choppa boys up into six units of ten instead of two units of thirty? The Arrer Boyz don't get any benefit (other than leadership) for large units so they seem like they would be best to leave in small units. I thought about trying to convert them to savage orcs by replacing their heads with non-helmeted 40k heads, but I just don't think they'd look right.

All my fantasy orcs have the old square bases. Is it considered cheating to use those bases? Should I be buying new bases for them?

 Dakka Flakka Flame wrote:
Cool, so maybe split the choppa boys up into six units of ten instead of two units of thirty? The Arrer Boyz don't get any benefit (other than leadership) for large units so they seem like they would be best to leave in small units. I thought about trying to convert them to savage orcs by replacing their heads with non-helmeted 40k heads, but I just don't think they'd look right.

All my fantasy orcs have the old square bases. Is it considered cheating to use those bases? Should I be buying new bases for them?

No, it's not considered cheating, there's no mandatory base system, though aestethically people prefer the round ones since they allow more room and cooler basing. Still, I'd consider going for big units. I haven't looked into the "greenskinz" rules but I'm pretty sure there's at least a handful of heroes that grant buffs to a single unit. Bigger unit, bigger utility. Also, with bigger units it's easier for them to fall inside the warboss WAAAGH! bubble, which means even more attacks.

That's good to know about the bases, thanks.

As far as characters giving buffs, the only Orcs that do that are Azhag and the Savage Orc Warboss. The others have buffs for units within a certain distance of them.

Of course the Orc Great Shaman can cast Mystic Shield, which is better cast on big units than small units.

Basic Orcs have "Mob Rule" which means they get an extra attack with their melee weapon if there are twenty or more in the unit. Orc Warboss gives an extra attack to orcs in your army within 12" with the "Waaagh!" command ability. So the one rule encourages big units while the other encourages getting the most models into combat as possible. If spears were an option this would be a bit easier.

Bigger units mean better leadership, but on the other hand once a game the "Da Big Waaagh!" special rules gives them two extra attacks instead of one.

I've got about 60 orcs (not counting Arrer Boyz), so I figure I could break them up the following ways:
A. Two mobs of 30
B. One mob of 40, two mobs of 10
C. Three mobs of 20
D. One mob of 30, one mob of 20, one mob of 10


The Pile In rule of having to move towards the closest model seems like it could make wrapping around the enemy to get the most boys into combat as possible problematic. If I lined up the boys in a relatively wide but thin formation do you think it would be easier to get more boys around the sides and into the fight?

Can another unit with longer range weapons attack through a friendly unit? I'm wondering if I have my goblins or a small unit of orcs with spears behind another unit of orcs but still within 2" of the enemy if they would be able to attack.

 Dakka Flakka Flame wrote:
That's good to know about the bases, thanks.

As far as characters giving buffs, the only Orcs that do that are Azhag and the Savage Orc Warboss. The others have buffs for units within a certain distance of them.

Of course the Orc Great Shaman can cast Mystic Shield, which is better cast on big units than small units.

Basic Orcs have "Mob Rule" which means they get an extra attack with their melee weapon if there are twenty or more in the unit. Orc Warboss gives an extra attack to orcs in your army within 12" with the "Waaagh!" command ability. So the one rule encourages big units while the other encourages getting the most models into combat as possible. If spears were an option this would be a bit easier.

Bigger units mean better leadership, but on the other hand once a game the "Da Big Waaagh!" special rules gives them two extra attacks instead of one.

I've got about 60 orcs (not counting Arrer Boyz), so I figure I could break them up the following ways:
A. Two mobs of 30
B. One mob of 40, two mobs of 10
C. Three mobs of 20
D. One mob of 30, one mob of 20, one mob of 10


The Pile In rule of having to move towards the closest model seems like it could make wrapping around the enemy to get the most boys into combat as possible problematic. If I lined up the boys in a relatively wide but thin formation do you think it would be easier to get more boys around the sides and into the fight?

Can another unit with longer range weapons attack through a friendly unit? I'm wondering if I have my goblins or a small unit of orcs with spears behind another unit of orcs but still within 2" of the enemy if they would be able to attack.

You're also forgetting that you can spread those models. a 5x5 formation isn't mandatory. Also pile-in means move to the closes model,yes, but doesn't mean you must go to the closest point of the closest model, so you could just circle the guy. or even start piling in the rear-rows.

I'd go for the C approach, you want to make the most of your activations (while at the same time not focusing too much on a single basket). Gives you a solid force to play border war and blood and glory,

That might be the way to go. I wasn't sure if 20 boy mobs would be a good middle ground or the worst of both worlds. The biggest downside I can see to having twenty in a mob is that if they take just one casualty they lose their extra attack from Mob Rule. On the other hand they still get the bonus to leadership, and might be more maneuverable than 30 boy mobs.

Thanks for the advice!

I guess there would actually be a lot more options than what I listed, I just had a bit of a brain fart. I'm not going to put down every possible combination of mobs to make up sixty boys, but I'll just say I'm open to suggestions.

I can of course do some experimenting and change things up down the road.

 Dakka Flakka Flame wrote:
That's good to know about the bases, thanks.

As far as characters giving buffs, the only Orcs that do that are Azhag and the Savage Orc Warboss. The others have buffs for units within a certain distance of them.

Of course the Orc Great Shaman can cast Mystic Shield, which is better cast on big units than small units.

Basic Orcs have "Mob Rule" which means they get an extra attack with their melee weapon if there are twenty or more in the unit. Orc Warboss gives an extra attack to orcs in your army within 12" with the "Waaagh!" command ability. So the one rule encourages big units while the other encourages getting the most models into combat as possible. If spears were an option this would be a bit easier.

Bigger units mean better leadership, but on the other hand once a game the "Da Big Waaagh!" special rules gives them two extra attacks instead of one.

I've got about 60 orcs (not counting Arrer Boyz), so I figure I could break them up the following ways:
A. Two mobs of 30
B. One mob of 40, two mobs of 10
C. Three mobs of 20
D. One mob of 30, one mob of 20, one mob of 10


The Pile In rule of having to move towards the closest model seems like it could make wrapping around the enemy to get the most boys into combat as possible problematic. If I lined up the boys in a relatively wide but thin formation do you think it would be easier to get more boys around the sides and into the fight?

Can another unit with longer range weapons attack through a friendly unit? I'm wondering if I have my goblins or a small unit of orcs with spears behind another unit of orcs but still within 2" of the enemy if they would be able to attack.

I play Greenskinz a bunch. There's nothing like a mob of 40 Orruks with three attacks each (using the General's command ability, of course).
I can speak from experience, that taking groups of 20 is a waste. Never take 20. Go 10 to provide cover and fill out battle line, or 30 or 40 to make a killy unit. With 20, you're unlikely to get their mob bonus of the extra attack at all, let alone for more than one combat. I suggest either A or B is a good option. Keep in mind that "rank" bonus for bravery - +3 bravery during battleshock is a huge bonus at the beginning of a game.

As well, depending on how seriously your opponents take the game, The Greenskinz Big Mob is no longer valid in official Matched Play. The keywords no longer match up.

Gah, you're right. In the General's Handbook it lists a point cost for Orruks but not Orcs, and when I go to their warscroll on the GW store page instead of the Orcs & Goblins compendium they no longer have the right keywords.

That's a real bummer. Do you think GW will "fix" it in the coming months or do you think the Greenskinz Big Mob is pretty much done for?

I have a goal of not spending a lot of time or money (I have two other armies I'm working on) so I can put my Orcs/Orruks on the back burner for now if things are likely to change relatively soon.

 Dakka Flakka Flame wrote:
Gah, you're right. In the General's Handbook it lists a point cost for Orruks but not Orcs, and when I go to their warscroll on the GW store page instead of the Orcs & Goblins compendium they no longer have the right keywords.

That's a real bummer. Do you think GW will "fix" it in the coming months or do you think the Greenskinz Big Mob is pretty much done for?

I have a goal of not spending a lot of time or money (I have two other armies I'm working on) so I can put my Orcs/Orruks on the back burner for now if things are likely to change relatively soon.

I think you can do a bit of reporpusing and fitting the army in the formation with the models you have. Can't say for sure, since I don't have the warscrolls (or laptop) at hand).

Lord Kragan wrote:
I think you can do a bit of reporpusing and fitting the army in the formation with the models you have. Can't say for sure, since I don't have the warscrolls (or laptop) at hand).

I've been looking through The General's Handbook and the various warscrolls and I can't figure out a way to make it work. I'd bet that most people would be okay with it as it would be within the spirit of the laws if not the letter, but it would still be nice to have something that is technically legal as well.

Is there any additional info in the various battletomes and compendiums that might cover this? I read that Grand Alliance Destruction has fluff and is handy because it collects all of the warscrolls into one place, but that it doesn't have anything new. I assumed that the Bonesplitterz and Ironjawz battletomes wouldn't have anything for regular Orcs & Goblins.