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Hi guys!

So, finally I got my hands on the codex: imperial agents and started to check out the Adepta Sororitas chapter. There is one thing that I immediately started to think about though. When I make a list for my Adepta Sororitas, do I have to use the Vestal Task force-detachment in Codex: Imperial Agents or can I make a list and using an ordinary CAD?

For those of you who doesn´t know what the Vestal Task force is: it´s a unique detachment for the AS. You have a compulsory Elite choice in addition to the HQ and Troop choice. You loose the objective secure rule, but you get another bonus instead.

Cheers

Yes, you can definitely make a CAD. In fact, there is no reason whatsoever to take a vestal taskforce. One turn of rerolling failed saves of 1 is not worth giving up 5-7 turns of obsec.

Giantwalkingchair wrote:
Yes, you can definitely make a CAD. In fact, there is no reason whatsoever to take a vestal taskforce. One turn of rerolling failed saves of 1 is not worth giving up 5-7 turns of obsec.

I was hoping to hear that, although I must ask how you know that. I´d just like to know if someone ever starts to question me about it. It doesn´t say anywhere on the page in C:IA that you can use any other kind of detachment.

You can almost always make a CAD from any army. It's just in the basic rulebook for the game.

Pg 122 (in the pocket sized 40k rulebook) shows two detachments that "can be included in any Battle-forged army".
Combined arms detachment (1-2 hq 2-6 troops 0-3 for each of rest) and allied detachment (1 hq 1-2 troops plus 0-1 of the restbut "ccannot be your primary detachment").

I disagree with the formation being worse then the CAD.

1. Not all missions are objective missions.
2. For an MSU force getting a turn of Power armor rerolling 1's is really nice.
3. The saint is a 2+, so you are getting a 2+ reroll for a turn on her.

With a CAD, I run up the table, hop out my tanks, shoot, then get blasted off the table.

With the new formation I run up the table, pop the reroll 1's ability, hop out the tank, shoot, then tank the crap out of the fire coming my way so I can shoot another turn.

Another way of thinking is, if these were Space Marines getting reroll 1's for a turn, I don't think you would say it was a worthless formation......

It's a worthless formation. For one turn per game you get to slow the game down for marginal returns. Even if ObSec isn't useful all the time, it tends to be slightly more useful than a once per game armor re-roll.

SJ

 sfshilo wrote:
I disagree with the formation being worse then the CAD.

1. Not all missions are objective missions.
2. For an MSU force getting a turn of Power armor rerolling 1's is really nice.
3. The saint is a 2+, so you are getting a 2+ reroll for a turn on her.

With a CAD, I run up the table, hop out my tanks, shoot, then get blasted off the table.

With the new formation I run up the table, pop the reroll 1's ability, hop out the tank, shoot, then tank the crap out of the fire coming my way so I can shoot another turn.

Another way of thinking is, if these were Space Marines getting reroll 1's for a turn, I don't think you would say it was a worthless formation......

1. Space marines have access to 2+ armor. 2. Space marines have access to 3+ invuls, 3. Space marines have ATSKNF 4. Space marines have +1 toughness. 5. It absolutely would still be a terrible detachment 6. The elite slot in SoB might as well not exist for how terrible it is. 7. You're still getting shot to sh** when you get out, it might take 3 extra bolter shots but you're still going to die. 8. The 5 wound saint is plenty survivable as is, the 3 wound one isn't getting her armor save because she goes down to a single melta shot and that's what people will fire at her.

Please don't put lipstick on pigs.

There is a use for the Sisters elite slot now~! Take Deathcult Assassins for 30 points and put those two in an immolator. You now have more immolators without using any useful slot! Plus..I guess two people to hit things should the box blow up?

It's not an especially good detachment, but it's not... completely terrible. Here's the thing: the way my local group is starting to understand it, Agents of the Imperium doesn't actually replace the other books related to the factions within it. So you can think of the book as sort of kind of being a Codex: Haemonculus Covens to your dark eldar codex.

What I'm getting at is that while you'll generally be better off building your army around a CAD, you can always sprinkle the Vestal Task Force on top if you just happen to want to take units that fit into that detachment. It's probably not a very competitive choice, but it's there for those rare occassions when it does what you're looking for.

And honestly? i don't personally put a ton of stock in obsec most of the time. It's good, but not amazing. I could see myself occassionally just wanting to pick up some 1s and save some sisters instead of being super-scoring.

Also, some of us play a non-zero number of Eternal War missions. In which case, obsec only matters at the very end of the game whereas the rerolling saves benefit matters on a turn of your choice.

I'd give it a solid B. You probably won't use it in tournaments, but you won't hate yourself for using it in casual games either.

I think the only full faction that can't take a CAD base is Skitarii.

 sfshilo wrote:
1. Not all missions are objective missions.

You're 100% right for book missions, but a lot of tournament scenarios have some aspect of flag-capping to them. In those situations it's very useful to have ObSec units, especially vehicles.

2. For an MSU force getting a turn of Power armor rerolling 1's is really nice.

It's not bad, but ObSec is still what I'd prefer. I mean, you're rerolling 1s. Half of your Sisters who fail armour saves and almost everyone rolling SoF will still die. If your opponent scores lots of wounds but has has a limited number of AP3/2/1 options (i.e. Eldar, Tau) it will save a bunch of models, otherwise it's largely wasted. It also doesn't get your Sisters out of combat which is where they tend to die the most.


All that said, the CAD only makes your Troops ObSec and the Detachments aren't mutually exclusive - you could run some BSS in your CAD and your support stuff in a VTF. It does mean paying the Elites tax for the VTF though, which is... not good.

HoundsofDemos wrote:
I think the only full faction that can't take a CAD base is Skitarii.

They can now, because Cadia gives them HQ choices.

Wyldhunt wrote:
Here's the thing: the way my local group is starting to understand it, Agents of the Imperium doesn't actually replace the other books related to the factions within it.

Exactly.

CplPunishment wrote:
Pg 122 (in the pocket sized 40k rulebook) shows two detachments that "can be included in any Battle-forged army".
Combined arms detachment (1-2 hq 2-6 troops 0-3 for each of rest) and allied detachment (1 hq 1-2 troops plus 0-1 of the restbut "cannot be your primary detachment").

This.

Go nuts, use either of those for any book don't have to use the specialized detachments or the metadetachments unless you want to and decide they're to your benefit.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 captain bloody fists wrote:

Wyldhunt wrote:
Here's the thing: the way my local group is starting to understand it, Agents of the Imperium doesn't actually replace the other books related to the factions within it.

Exactly.

This is also correct. Games Workshop even outright said it doesn't do so; Imperial Agents is merely a supplement, and GW still sells the Adepta Sororitas book.

The Sisters digi-dex just got pushed an update. Looks like they added three new formations.

SJ

 jeffersonian000 wrote:
The Sisters digi-dex just got pushed an update. Looks like they added three new formations.

SJ

Oh really...? Is this fact or rumour?

 jeffersonian000 wrote:
The Sisters digi-dex just got pushed an update. Looks like they added three new formations.

SJ

Source or lies. Everyone knows they have 3 formations already that they're not allowed to use.

What part of "they just pushed an update" requires a citation? They literally just pushed updates on 6 of the ebook codexes I have on my phone, the Sororitas being one. The three formations where the only things new that I noticed.

Purge Squadron (3-6 Immies, 3-6 Ret squads)

Repentant Host (3+ Repentia, 3+ Penitent Engines)

The Angelic Host (St. Celestine, 2-5 Seraphim squads)

No update to Celestine, nothing from the IA codex.

SJ

 jeffersonian000 wrote:
What part of "they just pushed an update" requires a citation? They literally just pushed updates on 6 of the ebook codexes I have on my phone, the Sororitas being one. The three formations where the only things new that I noticed.

Purge Squadron (3-6 Immies, 3-6 Ret squads)

Repentant Host (3+ Repentia, 3+ Penitent Engines)

The Angelic Host (St. Celestine, 2-5 Seraphim squads)

No update to Celestine, nothing from the IA codex.

SJ

I'm fairly certain those are the previous formations sisters were allowed. Apoc only. Nothing to see here, folks.

 mmzero252 wrote:

 jeffersonian000 wrote:
What part of "they just pushed an update" requires a citation? They literally just pushed updates on 6 of the ebook codexes I have on my phone, the Sororitas being one. The three formations where the only things new that I noticed.

Purge Squadron (3-6 Immies, 3-6 Ret squads)

Repentant Host (3+ Repentia, 3+ Penitent Engines)

The Angelic Host (St. Celestine, 2-5 Seraphim squads)

No update to Celestine, nothing from the IA codex.

SJ

I'm fairly certain those are the previous formations sisters were allowed. Apoc only. Nothing to see here, folks.

^^
This. These formation have always been there and they're Apoc only courtesy of GW FAQ brainmelt...seriously, why ban these formations from normal games? Purge squadron? Fair enough, it uses apoc blast templates but is so easily broken it's not funny. Repentant host? The super squishies and the wet-paper Walker? They don't even really get anything out of it. Angelic host? These girls literally get nothing but the ability to deep strike at start of any turn.
The squads have to be maxed out. They're such costly formations with few returns. I really don't know what GW were smoking to say "no" to these formations. (Angelic host is fun) seriously, there's plenty formations in other armies with more benefits and more powerful units that all over these.

Isn't purge squadron the super awful formation that requires each squad to have one of each heavy weapon anyway? What the heck were they even thinking with that? No matter what you're wasting a weapon's potential.

Eeyup. If you took minimum units to field it, all you had to do was lose an Immolator or a single on of those weapons and the formation loses ALL its special shooting abilities which is the whole point of the formation.

Hermie wrote:
Hi guys!

So, finally I got my hands on the codex: imperial agents and started to check out the Adepta Sororitas chapter. There is one thing that I immediately started to think about though. When I make a list for my Adepta Sororitas, do I have to use the Vestal Task force-detachment in Codex: Imperial Agents or can I make a list and using an ordinary CAD?

For those of you who doesn´t know what the Vestal Task force is: it´s a unique detachment for the AS. You have a compulsory Elite choice in addition to the HQ and Troop choice. You loose the objective secure rule, but you get another bonus instead.

Cheers

Imperial Agents contains Formations and the units they can include in them. The units in ther Imperial Agents book are forthe Vestal Fiormation. It no more replaces the Sisters of Battle Codex than the Grey Knight section replaces Grey Knights.

I disagree with people telling you to use those units in a CAD which is not a Detachment in the Imperial Agents book.

 Jancoran wrote:

Hermie wrote:
Hi guys!

So, finally I got my hands on the codex: imperial agents and started to check out the Adepta Sororitas chapter. There is one thing that I immediately started to think about though. When I make a list for my Adepta Sororitas, do I have to use the Vestal Task force-detachment in Codex: Imperial Agents or can I make a list and using an ordinary CAD?

For those of you who doesn´t know what the Vestal Task force is: it´s a unique detachment for the AS. You have a compulsory Elite choice in addition to the HQ and Troop choice. You loose the objective secure rule, but you get another bonus instead.

Cheers

Imperial Agents contains Formations and the units they can include in them. The units in ther Imperial Agents book are forthe Vestal Fiormation. It no more replaces the Sisters of Battle Codex than the Grey Knight section replaces Grey Knights.

I disagree with people telling you to use those units in a CAD which is not a Detachment in the Imperial Agents book.

It's technically not in ANY book, except the BRB.

Giantwalkingchair wrote:
Repentant host? The super squishies and the wet-paper Walker? They don't even really get anything out of it. Angelic host? These girls literally get nothing but the ability to deep strike at start of any turn.

i wouldn't say the Walkers are wet paper... i had a squad of them walk through a landraider the other day and kept on walking.
and the Angelic Host gets shred as well. which is useful.

 mmzero252 wrote:
Isn't purge squadron the super awful formation that requires each squad to have one of each heavy weapon anyway? What the heck were they even thinking with that? No matter what you're wasting a weapon's potential.

Not necessarily. you could jsut pack your entire squads with just HB's MM HF's and use only the corresponding attack. yes it limits you BUT you don't have to be so concerned about losing the formation first turn or something...

Restriction for the formation is that each squad must have at least 1 HB, 1 mm and 1hf. That leaves a single backup weapon of one of those, so if a non backed up weapon goes down, the squad is useless to the formation as it no longer meets the requirements. The formation has relentless which is good but they're in immos so they're constantly having g toump out each time to shoot.
I suppose you could take immos as a fast choice and take repressors as dedicated transports but then that's a bloody expensive formation.

Sadly I've never had luck with my penitent engines, they always blow up by 2nd turn- a fellow sisters player cursed then in their first ever game; said they'd die easy and never hit anything and that's exactly what they've done...jerk.

Giantwalkingchair wrote:
Restriction for the formation is that each squad must have at least 1 HB, 1 mm and 1hf.

Sadly I've never had luck with my penitent engines, they always blow up by 2nd turn- a fellow sisters player cursed then in their first ever game; said they'd die easy and never hit anything and that's exactly what they've done...jerk.

just checked my dex and yeah you're right. i haven't read that section in ages, since we can't use it....

bad luck... i've been running a single squad (3 in total) and they rip through stuff. played against some DA last week in a 2k battle and they walked through the deathwing command squad. i wanted to see how they would go against the Deathwing Knights but couldn't get them across the field quick enough and ran out of turns.

Yeah that's why I was saying it's raaaaather useless. Having a squad like that, let alone three minimum, is terrible. Paired with the fact that immolators have a single firing point...

Yeeeesh.. The only thing I can think of is to use the repressors and then pack the immos with something else.

Or just not run it. I'm starting to enjoy the large squads of sisters. Been packing them out to 15 sisters and they deal out a bit of hurt before they go down.